ying and yang--Lamm ML3 and darTZeel 458

BruceD · Feb 21, 2018

I do feel for Mike--the Hum/Buzz/etc dilemma is something akin to toothache --unless it is fixed --it annoys the hell outa one

I must admit the civility addressed here amongst the participants is a credit to the Forum--Kudos fellas!--

While the Purists would I feel ,certainly disagree with my fix--herewith my tale--

I had a Hum for Africa in two components ( One with huge Toroidal and other Tube Power Trans') and drove me bonkers-- I installed a Regenerator (Uhh!) and was able to dial a frequency that eliminated 99.9%

Alls Quiet on the Western Front again at Chez Brucie

Good Luck Mike--all will be resolved I'm sure-with David and I presume (soon?)Vlad on the case--

BruceD

Mike Lavigne · Feb 21, 2018

BruceD said:
I do feel for Mike--the Hum/Buzz/etc dilemma is something akin to toothache --unless it is fixed --it annoys the hell outa one

I must admit the civility addressed here amongst the participants is a credit to the Forum--Kudos fellas!--

While the Purists would I feel ,certainly disagree with my fix--herewith my tale--

I had a Hum for Africa in two components ( One with huge Toroidal and other Tube Power Trans') and drove me bonkers-- I installed a Regenerator (Uhh!) and was able to dial a frequency that eliminated 99.9%

Alls Quiet on the Western Front again at Chez Brucie

Good Luck Mike--all will be resolved I'm sure-with David and I presume (soon?)Vlad on the case--

BruceD

I'm a believer in regenerators. love my Equi=tech.....and added a lab regenerator back in the day (early 2002) to get the speed of my Rockport Sirius II correct (ironically it was a suggestion of one...David Karmeli....who had sold me my Kharma Exquisite speakers 6 months prior).

just got off the phone with David, we had a chuckle or two about the thread direction, and agreed to split the responsibility for the 'noise' 'LL1.1' hubbub 50-50.

David did give me marching orders for my initial next step to resolve the noise, which will happen later tonight. it does not involve chickens, goats, or virgins.

BruceD · Feb 21, 2018

Yes well up in the rarified air of finicky Hi End apparatus --and ones shortness of patience should heaven forbid ! anything go "wrong"

especially in the expectation stakes!

Rereading Micros points above re the XLR cable earthing--maybe worth investigating as the grounding/non same/source of/pin orientation /etc can be a hum originator also.

Without pressing on the Regen issue--the one you have--is there any provision to adjust Line in Frequency( inbuilt Potentiometer /etc) on the Equi-tech?

But I feel you are in expert hands--so all will be resolved I'm sure--

BruceD

ddk · Feb 21, 2018

microstrip said:
Tubes in summer? My distributor told me that usually people sell their tubes in summer, because of heat.

That's because even in the 21st century air conditioners are still a dream in Europe

!

david

jazdoc · Feb 21, 2018

Mike Lavigne said:
I'm a believer in regenerators. love my Equi=tech.....and added a lab regenerator back in the day (early 2002) to get the speed of my Rockport Sirius II correct (ironically it was a suggestion of one...David Karmeli....who had sold me my Kharma Exquisite speakers 6 months prior).

just got off the phone with David, we had a chuckle or two about the thread direction, and agreed to split the responsibility for the 'noise' 'LL1.1' hubbub 50-50.

David did give me marching orders for my initial next step to resolve the noise, which will happen later tonight. it does not involve chickens, goats, or virgins.

Have you run out of virgins?

JackD201 · Feb 21, 2018

Mike Lavigne said:
I'm a believer in regenerators. love my Equi=tech.....and added a lab regenerator back in the day (early 2002) to get the speed of my Rockport Sirius II correct (ironically it was a suggestion of one...David Karmeli....who had sold me my Kharma Exquisite speakers 6 months prior).

just got off the phone with David, we had a chuckle or two about the thread direction, and agreed to split the responsibility for the 'noise' 'LL1.1' hubbub 50-50.

David did give me marching orders for my initial next step to resolve the noise, which will happen later tonight. it does not involve chickens, goats, or virgins.

Too bad Mike, chickens are sworn by. LOL

I have no doubt that you of all people will get this all sorted out.

Tango · Feb 21, 2018

BruceD said:
I do feel for Mike--the Hum/Buzz/etc dilemma is something akin to toothache --unless it is fixed --it annoys the hell outa one

Thank goodness it is just a toothache not Hemorrhoids.

Tang

BruceD · Feb 21, 2018

Tango said:
Thank goodness it is just a toothache not Hemorrhoids.

Tang

Oooooh!!--You speak from experience ?

BD

shakti · Feb 21, 2018

I do had some SET mono amps in my system and with some of them I had a higher noise floor/hum problem.
I tried all ans everything , the most of the stuff, which was recommended in this thread...

Finally I identified the root cause, so I like to share, may be one point more to consider.

I had positioned the SET amps aside to my Krell Evo 600 mono amps.

And even with the powerchords / signalcable / speakercable disconnected from the Krell amps, the remaining magnetism / permeability of the huge transformator distored some of the SET amps used.

The channel difference in level was dependend of the position of the powertube in the amp (the Air Tight 211 monos do have the tube on the left side, placing the tube closer to the Krell has increased the noise)

I became aware, after I sold the Krell and all noise floor problems were gone....

may be your Dartzeel have a huge powersupply too?

XV-1 · Feb 21, 2018

LL21 said:
As someone who has been CJ preamp (tube) and Class A amp (SS) for nearly 10 years and with no desire to change (ie, am not going all tube or all SS, and do not think about 'half the magic' at all)...if Mike has found a consistency in his goals by adding a purity of alternative amplification with the ML3s which he can use to substitute into the rest of his system where he values all of the other components contribution 'as is'...i cannot see this one change as inconsistent. It is simply an alternative purity of amplification in an otherwise fully matured system.

very true Lloyd. All Mike is doing is having a different flavour of goodness in his amps, available on tap with a 90 second change of cables.

Having both SS and tube amps has actually saved me $$ as when I get bored of one amp, I switch in the other.

I do seem to have it back to front atm with the big cj mono's making summer even hotter!!

RogerD · Feb 22, 2018

I will be interested in what Mike's thoughts are in 3 or 6 months from now....enjoy Mike.

Mike Lavigne · Feb 22, 2018

kudos to David.

got home an hours ago. went through a process with David. no more noise from my listening position. if I get within 3-4 feet of the speaker I can hear a bit of noise. but it's not attenuated by the volume control. so problem solved. the only way to eliminate any/all noise would be to shorten the interconnects to 1.5 meters or less from pre to amp. it's already how I want it now, so for me next case. moving the amps or preamp is not even a consideration.

in the end, the only thing we ended up doing was lifting the ground on the amp power cords. I will differ to David any explanation of exactly the process we followed.

no animals were harmed (or LL1.1 seen) during this noise reduction process.

now.....much music to listen to......

Mike Lavigne · Feb 22, 2018

shakti said:
I do had some SET mono amps in my system and with some of them I had a higher noise floor/hum problem.
I tried all ans everything , the most of the stuff, which was recommended in this thread...

Finally I identified the root cause, so I like to share, may be one point more to consider.

I had positioned the SET amps aside to my Krell Evo 600 mono amps.

And even with the powerchords / signalcable / speakercable disconnected from the Krell amps, the remaining magnetism / permeability of the huge transformator distored some of the SET amps used.

The channel difference in level was dependend of the position of the powertube in the amp (the Air Tight 211 monos do have the tube on the left side, placing the tube closer to the Krell has increased the noise)

I became aware, after I sold the Krell and all noise floor problems were gone....

may be your Dartzeel have a huge powersupply too?

great idea. tonight before I called David, I did try moving the ML3's farther from the big dart mono blocks (which do have large transformers), and also (in the spirit of the last day's posts in this thread) wrapping the dart in a couple of layers of tinfoil; but......alas, it made no difference at all.

BruceD · Feb 22, 2018

Ah Excellent outcome--In the words of the Bard--

"All's well that ends well!"

BruceD

NorthStar · Feb 22, 2018

Mike Lavigne said:
kudos to David.

got home an hours ago. went through a process with David. no more noise from my listening position. if I get within 3-4 feet of the speaker I can hear a bit of noise. but it's not attenuated by the volume control. so problem solved. the only way to eliminate any/all noise would be to shorten the interconnects to 1.5 meters or less from pre to amp. it's already how I want it now, so for me next case. moving the amps or preamp is not even a consideration.

in the end, the only thing we ended up doing was lifting the ground on the amp power cords. I will differ to David any explanation of exactly the process we followed.

no animals were harmed (or LL1.1 seen) during this noise reduction process.

now.....much music to listen to......

Now that's good news.

spiritofmusic · Feb 22, 2018

I may not have any chickens, goats or virgins. But I have a crystal ball. And I see the future. And that future involves more tube gear in Mike’s system .

bonzo75 · Feb 22, 2018

spiritofmusic said:
I may not have any chickens, goats or virgins. But I have a crystal ball. And I see the future. And that future involves more tube gear in Mike’s system .

Mike already mentioned he had Tenor 75 which is better than all the tube gear on this forum

harleyguy · Feb 22, 2018

bonzo75 said:
Mike already mentioned he had Tenor 75 which is better than all the tube gear on this forum

=+1

spiritofmusic · Feb 22, 2018

Maybe my crystal ball needs a polish.
Or needs to be upgraded to the 4K model.
I guess unlike a few of the mere mortals out there (me included), Mike can do these things on a reasonable whim, and see where the fancy takes him.
I guess my point is that there’s a reasonable chance that further time w the Lamms will really endear them to him, he’ll more and more devote his listening time to include them.
And the curiosity/impulse to get the crazy synergy of an all-Lamm chain may prove too compelling to resist.
That’s what my overtly biased, strictly pro tubes gear crystal ball is predicting.

microstrip · Feb 22, 2018

ddk said:
That's because even in the 21st century air conditioners are still a dream in Europe !

david

Unfortunately no, they are everywhere nowadays. But I hate processed air - I only switch air conditioning on when strictly needed. We have a moderate climate, but usually tubes make air conditioning during summer almost mandatory.

ying and yang--Lamm ML3 and darTZeel 458

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