ying and yang--Lamm ML3 and darTZeel 458

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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.....or is it Yang and Ying? (I would have used 'Clash of the Titans' as a thread title but it's taken.:D)

(I apologize to those who already know my story/rationalizations:rolleyes:) for a number of years I've hankered for a set of tube amps for when that urge strikes me. of course; back in 2001-2004 I owned and loved Tenor 75 watt OTL's, then 10 years later I owned a set of Found Music 2A3 3-watt mono blocks I also loved but did not work in my system. my solid state amps, the darTZeel 458 mono blocks, for me are the perfect amplifier since they capture much of what tubes do, while providing all of the best of solid state. to my ears they sound like music. period. so i'm a happy camper.

yet; for whatever reason I continue to think about owning a set of excellent tube amps. and I've lusted after a few of them. I don't need a tube amp that sounds like my big darts. I want an SET that does the whole purity and inner touch, magic, super holographic, thing. the big darts have minimalist parts count, and zero global feedback. and so those are important in a tube amp too. and it would help if the amp were linear at the frequency extremes (rare in an SET). i'm lucky in that my speakers are friendly to an SET (with 20+ watts even in my large room) since they are 97db, 7 ohm, and the bass is powered below 40 hz. and even though the deep bass is powered, it takes it's signal from the main amplifiers to allow the bass to be 'of a piece' with the gestalt of the main amps.

so last week I went and purchased a set of Lamm ML3 Signature mono blocks. it ticks all the boxes, I've heard it at shows multiple times, I've heard it twice at Steve's (Williams) house, and I heard it at David's (ddk) house too. except for David's house, all the rest were not quite as friendly a speaker situation as I have. I've pretty much loved it's sound every time. it does have it's own character, but it's one I love. if there is a tube amp out there more worthy of sitting next to my big darts, i'm not sure what that might be. maybe the Kagura's, but it's not an SET. and it needs tube rolling to be it's best; i'd rather avoid that part. it's more money too. and it's likely more 'like' the 458's than the ML3's are too. and honestly I have a feel for the sound of the ML3's and do not for the Kagura's. maybe if I did that would have been my target. i'm sure there are another 5 or 10 other tube amps which could have tickled my fancy that were not on my radar.

the ML3's will bring me a distinctly different musical viewpoint.

today I had some visitors, and we played one track where the big darts hit a 212 watt peak on a drum solo. not common, but it happens. obviously the ML3's cannot do stuff like that. so it will be limited in going to warp 9 mode. yet I know that the ML3's do space and can be quite dynamic for most music. and I have plenty of choices to stay away from the big boom stuff, or I live with a bit of distortion. I know this will not be a plug and play proposition. I will need time to see what I need to do to optimize the ML3's in my system. I will use the dart pre which is optimally single ended. I have a 7 meter set of Silent Source Signature RCA's I will use between the ML3's and the dart pre. to begin with I will use my EA speaker cables, but I am open to other speaker cables to find the right balance (likely ddk will have some good recs for me). my plan is to move any grounding connections back and forth between the amps (likely ddk will want to strangle me:rolleyes:).

these ML3 Signatures are 'used' but were sent to Lamm in NYC to be checked over before I got them and passed 'as new'. I also purchased a set of 4 SRA (Silent Running Audio) Virginia Class platforms made specifically for the ML3's. the platforms arrived yesterday (I've set them up below, waiting for amplifiers), the amps will be here by Wednesday. I will listen and report first impressions.

Virginia-1.jpg

Virginia-3.jpg
 
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Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Enjoy them Mike

They are indeed special and you and I have talked comparisons between these two amps. You're going to have a lot of fun with the Dart and the Lamm. Almost like changing cartridges for a different flavor.

One thing I can say is IMO Vlad knows his tubes and I always source them from him . Plus he has the s/n on yours and will always be able to provide you a matched set. I've owned Vlad's electronics now for 12 years and for my ears and my system I have always said that Wilson and Lamm together give a very special sound
 

Tango

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I know you always have a tube dna. :D

Congratulation, Mike.

Tang
 

Hi-FiGuy

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Feb 23, 2015
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:cool:
Wonder what that drum solo was! Please share.
Having heard both, I cant disagree!
 

jeff1225

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Jan 29, 2012
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Congrats Mike. AS turntable and new LAMM amps as well, what a great 2018.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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:cool:
Wonder what that drum solo was! Please share.
Having heard both, I cant disagree!

'Old Hymn' from the 45 dtd of 'Charlie Byrd'.

it was peaking in the 180's, the highest I saw was 212.

I've seen the low 400's in my room. which is crazy for a 97db 7 ohm speaker. and at the L.A. Show last year Herve' hit around 1200 peak with the 458's with the Evolution Acoustics prototype speakers (which are mid 80's efficiency). no one else would have had the balls to go there.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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Finally Mike, a huge CONGRATS!:cool::cool::cool:

david

thanks David. I figured you would be pleased. I do look forward to your guidance in optimizing the ML3's.


Enjoy them Mike

They are indeed special and you and I have talked comparisons between these two amps. You're going to have a lot of fun with the Dart and the Lamm. Almost like changing cartridges for a different flavor.

One thing I can say is IMO Vlad knows his tubes and I always source them from him . Plus he has the s/n on yours and will always be able to provide you a matched set. I've owned Vlad's electronics now for 12 years and for my ears and my system I have always said that Wilson and Lamm together give a very special sound

thanks Steve. I did enjoy the ML3's both times at your place.

one attraction was the absence of tube stress; meaning me stressing over tube choices. I already know I love the sound of the amp as it is.

and I expect the MM7's will be a good match for the ML3's.

Wow ! Are you running a tube preamp with them too ?
Congrats Mike.

thanks Christian.

i'll be using the dart pre; which I consider a great match for any tube amp. it's also what Fremer used when he reviewed the ML3's.
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 24, 2015
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Congratulations, Mike! I am very happy and excited for you that you have satisfied your tube hankering!

There is nothing like going straight to the very tippy top of the tube food chain! I love the ML3s too!

(And your decision here only reinforces my determination to find a high power SET option.)
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Congratulations, Mike! I am very happy and excited for you that you have satisfied your tube hankering!

There is nothing like going straight to the very tippy top of the tube food chain! I love the ML3s too!

(And your decision here only reinforces my determination to find a high power SET option.)

Ron, best wishes with your amp quest. we are all enjoying the process.:D I hope you are too.

if I was not going to 'go to the tippy top' (as many view the ML3), I would not have pulled the trigger. I've had my finger near the tube amp 'go' button before, but I was never sufficiently at peace long term to get over the hump.

it was a no-brainer from a system end game perspective. zero doubt as to my degree of satisfaction, and in belief in the product. it's not the perfect amp for every situation, or everyone's taste. but for my situation it was the right one. I now have the solid state amp and tube amp of my dreams. there is the expense and that has it's pain for sure. these are personal decisions we all make or don't make.
 

Hi-FiGuy

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Feb 23, 2015
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By the way the Dart 458 shares a commonality with another favorite 458 of mine, both are very Speciale!
I consider them to both perform the same.
A very exciting time for your room!
01-2015-ferrari-458-speciale-fd-1.jpg
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Thank you, Mike!

You now will enjoy two different versions of amp heaven!
 

andromedaaudio

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Congrats mike , although my choice would probably have been CAT ref series ( switchable to set these days i think )
I ve never been exposed to Lamm much here , heard it twice at Kharma s place ,
I never got the Set thing really , depends off course on the genre one is playing as you stated, different music genres ask different things of an amp /system .
Although i joke sometimes a bit on cables tweaks and what not , i think you have a very keen mind on what works and what not , so i hope you keep an open mind , dont fall for all the Set peerpressure.:D
But comparing in your system is indeed the way to go , look forward to your objective hearingresults
 

Audiocrack

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Aug 10, 2012
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Very interesting move Mike, my congratulations! Because I am a set lover myself (the Kaguras are 211 set amps as are my previous 300b Gakuohs) I can fully understand your move. If I remember correctly you once tried the Berning top of the line (211/845) OTL poweramps and concluded that these amps had not enough power to fill (up) your (large) listening room. How are your new set amps doing in this regard? Could understand that you will be using the ML3s for certain types of music but I am not sure this is your intention. Although I am not familiar with these LAMM set amps they are undoubtedly gorgeous machines. Congrats again.
 

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