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Thread: Top Wing Seiryu arrives at Believe High Fidelity

  1. #131
    Addicted to Best! PeterA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Believe High Fidelity View Post
    Here I was thinking that you were giving a comprehensive review of the RS....disappointing.

    Spent some time against the Opus today on Billy's system (been spending a lot of time there lately) with the Primary Control Kinea. The one clear difference is that there is a HUGE difference in the loading between the two. Impedance matching is essential to optimize for the cartridge, not the phonostage. Cartridges are electro-mechanical and while the manufacturer may not publish the recommended impedance (due to very different Phono stages) you must ALWAYS load it properly to get the best sound.

    Billy and I both much preferred the RS on the Kinea with the Primary Control Reference 9in. The Transrotor was on its special dedicated stand for the A/B of the two TT systems using the Graham Phantom Elite and Air Tight Opus. A little unfair though because we did not have loading pins for the under 500 ohms for the Opus and as mentioned it like to be loaded closer to 100 for best sound

    Talos presentation was very surreal. Hard to describe until I have more time to understand this phenomenon.
    From the photographs, it looks like you compared the Opus to the RS using different arms and tables? Or did you switch the cartridges around? I would find if very difficult to reach any conclusions about the differences between the cartridges without a direct comparison of each contridge in the same arm/table/cable/phono combination.
    My system link on WBF: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...-Sublime-Sound
    Analog: SME 30/12, SME V-12, My Sonic Labs Signature Gold, AirTight Supreme, VDH Colibri Platinum, MINT LP protractor
    Electronics: Pass Labs XA160.5 amp, XP-22 preamp, XP-25 phono, Cables: Transparent REF XL MM2,
    Speakers: Magico Q3, Magico Mini II, Essentials: Jim Smith RoomPlay, 3 Vibraplanes, Dedicated circuits

  2. #132
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] Tango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    From the photographs, it looks like you compared the Opus to the RS using different arms and tables? Or did you switch the cartridges around? I would find if very difficult to reach any conclusions about the differences between the cartridges without a direct comparison of each contridge in the same arm/table/cable/phono combination.
    Hi Peter,

    It is always good to hear comparisons report from another person regardless of tt and arms. I also wish to know the kind of setup that makes this RS sings at its best so I can correct my inappropriate setup.

    Kind regards,
    Tang
    Last edited by Tango; 05-05-2018 at 07:09 AM.

  3. #133
    Addicted to Best! PeterA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tango View Post
    Hi Peter,

    It is always good to hear comparisons report from another person regardless of tt and arms. I also wish to know the kind of setup that makes this RS sings as it’s best so I can correct my inappropriate setup.

    Kind regards,
    Tang
    I agree Tang. I am just saying that a comparison between different components is less helpful to me if the context in which they are compared is different. These impressions are really about comparisons of vinyl source mini systems, not of particular cartridges.
    My system link on WBF: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...-Sublime-Sound
    Analog: SME 30/12, SME V-12, My Sonic Labs Signature Gold, AirTight Supreme, VDH Colibri Platinum, MINT LP protractor
    Electronics: Pass Labs XA160.5 amp, XP-22 preamp, XP-25 phono, Cables: Transparent REF XL MM2,
    Speakers: Magico Q3, Magico Mini II, Essentials: Jim Smith RoomPlay, 3 Vibraplanes, Dedicated circuits

  4. #134
    [Industry Expert] ddk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Has anyone with multiple arms on the same table ever tried sacrificing an old LP by breaking in multiple new cartridges at the same time with the volume off? It's a silly idea, especially as it is kind of interesting to hear how a new cartridge changes over time, and to just try to enjoy the process, but I am curious if anyone has tried this.
    Often, nothing silly about it.
    david
    Audio Industry Affiliate:Lamm, Kharma OLS Speakers, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformers,
    Specialty & Unique Offerings: Vintage horn speakers, Vintage and Modern Turntables, Analog Accessories.
    VENTA Air Washers & Humidifiers

    Manufacture: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack.

    System 1: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 1
    System 2: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 2- Near field setup

  5. #135
    Addicted to Best! XV-1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tango View Post
    Hi Shane,

    I didn’t answer because I don’t know. My Ayon Phono is a custom one and I never asked the designer. It works well with all my carts so far. The normal Ayon Spheris has ~300 ohms.

    The Airtight SUT is connected to the mm input of EMT phono with 47K. It has two selectable inputs. One for cart with 0.6-7 Ohm which is what I use with my MSL. The other is for cart with 7 - 40 Ohm. I understand the RS impedance is 12.3.

    Tang
    Oh I see - I am sure your system sounds great regardless. I thought the Ayon would have had multiple loading. Understand the SUT situation as getting them to perfectly interface with different cartridges sometimes seems like a dark art. Lucky you have a choice of a few.

    cheers
    Source:TW Raven AC-3 - Thales Simplicity II, Exclusive P3 & P10, Technics SL-1000MK3D, Linn LP12 - Naim ARO
    Cartridges: Lyra Atlas, Etna SL, Delos, Dynavector XV-1s, Technics EPC100mk4, Ortofon A90, GM Royal, GM Classic, Denon DL-S1, ESC'd 103R, Audio Tech AT25, OC9II, Linn ESC'd Troika
    Phono Stage: TW Acustik/Thoress phono, Accuphase C-37, Esoteric E-03 EQ: ​​DEQX HDP-4
    Preamp: cj GAT, Amps: cj teflon premier 8a's, D'Agostino Momentum Stereo, Speakers: Wilson Maxx3 -Townsend Supertweeters

  6. #136
    [Industry Expert] Addicted to Best! Believe High Fidelity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonzo75 View Post
    Whoa I see a shun Mook clamp.
    Not weighty enough, but I guess it doesn't have to be since its suction to the platter feature is pretty good
    Believe High Fidelity Ltd is the North American Distributor for:

    Aries Cerat Ltd
    Torqueo Audio
    Vermouth Audio Cables
    Etsuro Urushi Cartridges
    Primary Control
    Echo Diastasis
    Top Wing

    Kassandra LE DAC wins Best DAC of 2016/2017 with reviewer purchase @ Mono & Stereo! Article here

    Like us on Facebook!


    Email: j@Ibelieveinhifi.com
    Web: www.ibelieveinhifi.com

  7. #137
    [Industry Expert] Addicted to Best! Believe High Fidelity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    From the photographs, it looks like you compared the Opus to the RS using different arms and tables? Or did you switch the cartridges around? I would find if very difficult to reach any conclusions about the differences between the cartridges without a direct comparison of each contridge in the same arm/table/cable/phono combination.
    Wasn't looking to reach any definitive conclusions about anything and as mentioned before there will always be traits/virtues of any top cart more desirable to some more than others.

    What I was trying to specifically accomplish here (you are correct two diff tables and arms and carts) was to establish that the Primary Control Kinea and Arm at half the cost would be on par or better sounding than the Trans/Graham/Opus combo. That was a big success for me and this table is an understated masterpiece. Even the Aesthetics are very impressive in person, just not really understood in pictures.

    Now all the fun with cart swaps and different tonearms will happen when DDK comes to setup the AS-2000 which I hope isnt too far away. You will notice that there are no mounting points on the Kinea or Transrotor for multiple arms, but there is 4 on the AS-2000.

    So once the table is installed and dialed in I will be swapping carts, arms, you name it. Will probably order the 32k FCL Tonearm to use on this table as well.
    Believe High Fidelity Ltd is the North American Distributor for:

    Aries Cerat Ltd
    Torqueo Audio
    Vermouth Audio Cables
    Etsuro Urushi Cartridges
    Primary Control
    Echo Diastasis
    Top Wing

    Kassandra LE DAC wins Best DAC of 2016/2017 with reviewer purchase @ Mono & Stereo! Article here

    Like us on Facebook!


    Email: j@Ibelieveinhifi.com
    Web: www.ibelieveinhifi.com

  8. #138
    [Industry Expert] Addicted to Best! Believe High Fidelity's Avatar
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    Another area for improvement is to use the ACSUT (Aries Cerat Step Up Trans) 1-B's.




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    With this high gain SS amp being used right now it is too much gain in the system, but I have used these SUT's in my own system and they really add some dimension to the sound. So when the AC Legend amps get finished will likely be a permanent fixture in the system to round it all out
    Believe High Fidelity Ltd is the North American Distributor for:

    Aries Cerat Ltd
    Torqueo Audio
    Vermouth Audio Cables
    Etsuro Urushi Cartridges
    Primary Control
    Echo Diastasis
    Top Wing

    Kassandra LE DAC wins Best DAC of 2016/2017 with reviewer purchase @ Mono & Stereo! Article here

    Like us on Facebook!


    Email: j@Ibelieveinhifi.com
    Web: www.ibelieveinhifi.com

  9. #139
    [Industry Expert] ddk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Believe High Fidelity View Post
    Wasn't looking to reach any definitive conclusions about anything and as mentioned before there will always be traits/virtues of any top cart more desirable to some more than others.

    What I was trying to specifically accomplish here (you are correct two diff tables and arms and carts) was to establish that the Primary Control Kinea and Arm at half the cost would be on par or better sounding than the Trans/Graham/Opus combo. That was a big success for me and this table is an understated masterpiece. Even the Aesthetics are very impressive in person, just not really understood in pictures.

    Now all the fun with cart swaps and different tonearms will happen when DDK comes to setup the AS-2000 which I hope isnt too far away. You will notice that there are no mounting points on the Kinea or Transrotor for multiple arms, but there is 4 on the AS-2000.

    So once the table is installed and dialed in I will be swapping carts, arms, you name it. Will probably order the 32k FCL Tonearm to use on this table as well.
    Around the beginning of next month brother.

    david
    Audio Industry Affiliate:Lamm, Kharma OLS Speakers, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformers,
    Specialty & Unique Offerings: Vintage horn speakers, Vintage and Modern Turntables, Analog Accessories.
    VENTA Air Washers & Humidifiers

    Manufacture: American Sound Turntables and The Nothing Rack.

    System 1: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 1
    System 2: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 2- Near field setup

  10. #140
    Member Sponsor Addicted to Best!
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    Joshua, Iíve been in a little direct contact w Berndt, the designer of Primary Control re the Kinea DD tt, but didnít follow up things since I decided instead to trick out my current rim drive tt.

    However, I was highly impressed with what I heard, and in different circumstances his tt and arm would be right on my radar.

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