Why are seemingly Infinitesimal Movements of speakers so Significant and Musically Revealing?
- Thread starter caesar
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Room acoustics and speaker dispersion across the audio spectrum. The right position and toe-in can mean the difference between two speakers and a lifelike sound stage. Audiophiles that don't have the patience for tweaking acoustics and position will never get live sound IMO. I don't care how much DSP room correction you do.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Amen to all that. I may have spent far more time tweaking my room acoustics than auditioning and selecting components. I also discovered that 2 inches back or forth in listening chair position can make the difference between even and uneven bass.
You need to do the listening chair thing for best bass and then tweak speakers..the bass nodes position in the room wont change much with small speaker movements
That's not what I've (empirically) found out. Moving speakers half an inch back/forth and left/right matter, quite a bit actually.
At bass frequencies per Rodney, that is quite unbelievable, actually, considering the long wavelengths involved. I guess a certain kind of standing wave pattern might possibly do what you say, but we don't want that in our listening rooms. I don't suppose you have the measurements you took empirically.
Not sure how many systems you've voiced to rooms, but in my experience, the listening location (not moving the speakers around so much at this early stage) is always the first step for smoothest bass. The listening position then becomes the anchor point for all else to follow. Always - in hundreds of systems voiced over the years.
It's about standing waves related to room dimensions. Every room has these issues to some extent. Ignoring this fundamental first step will prevent you from unlocking all of your system's musical impact - IMO & IME.
First one needs to buy good speakers with good basscapabilities , those you dont need to move so much.
Some speakers you just gotta keep moving around
.(eventually out of the door )
Speakerplacement is important but you gotta have something good to start with , and no you cant solve that with thick cables.
Ps The housing of a speaker is very important in that regard , and sorry to say thats gonna cost you , i never heard good tight bass from flimsy bass cabinets
Some speakers you just gotta keep moving around
.(eventually out of the door )Speakerplacement is important but you gotta have something good to start with , and no you cant solve that with thick cables.
Ps The housing of a speaker is very important in that regard , and sorry to say thats gonna cost you , i never heard good tight bass from flimsy bass cabinets
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First one needs to buy good speakers with good basscapabilities , those you dont need to move so much.
Some speakers you just gotta keep moving around
Speakerplacement is important but you gotta have something good to start with , and no you cant solve that with thick cables.
Ps The housing of a speaker is very important in that regard , and sorry to say thats gonna cost you , i never heard good tight bass from flimsy bass cabinets
It is possible. Just put 100lbs of lead bricks on top of each bass box. Works like a charm.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
The problem with full range speakers is that the position for optimal deep bass is not necessarily the position for best soundstage, and vice versa. So yeah, you gotta move around. And subs help anyway even with 'full range'.
Monitors that have less bass are actually easier to position, imo. You just find the best position for the soundstage, and the deep bass is taken care of by subs which don't have to be in the same location.
emperical
Doesnt matter much , your housing still isnt stiff enough itself .
You can compare it with firecrackers , put the same amount of gunpowder in either a carton/paper shell or in an iron shell , compare the loudness of the sound blast , and the snap /explosivenis
Doesnt matter much , your housing still isnt stiff enough itself .
You can compare it with firecrackers , put the same amount of gunpowder in either a carton/paper shell or in an iron shell , compare the loudness of the sound blast , and the snap /explosivenis
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The problems are compounded and amplified in non-dedicated rooms. This is why I chose to buy a full range I could modify to fit in the room, and has been very difficult to buy anything else
From an engineering perspective, I have a lot of respect for speakers that offer user-adjustable crossovers, like the higher end Wilsons. It is a REALLY big deal, from my point of view, to be able to adjust your speakers' frequency response and phase to fit the room, and my experience the last 10 years of doing so tells me that some people are thinking really outside the box; just wish many more did.
Fine, Jim. Speaker placement is important. But, the assertion was that movements by 1/2" significantly affect the bass. My question is do you or anyone have any solid evidence of that, meaning other than fleeting listener anecdotes?
Our perception of bass (what really matters IMHO) varies a lot with changes elsewhere in the spectrum. I have often played with an RTA close to the listening positions and there was no significant variation in the octaves bellow 200 Hz when moving the microphone by such small distances.
In my system and room small changes is speaker position can make significant changes in sound quality - however moving my listening position slightly does not make such differences. BTW, my listening distance is typically around 11-12 feet.
Thank you. I think we agree. Yes, the words used were "empirical" differences in "bass" when moving speakers 1/2". I do think that implies differences in fundamental bass frequencies, not perceptual differences due to the harmonic structure.
Because you cant measure bass freq accurately due to room influence , in an anechoic chamber yes , but i dont value that much either since my room aint one , and speakers that measure flat in them sound underwhelming the bassregion .
¨Perception of bass matters¨ , no good design matters ,there are a lot of of other measured specs one can use in design , its not an accident to get good bass , a lot of audiophiles try to make things difficult/esoteric and use all kind of expensive cables and expensive mysterious little boxes , and claim that is nescessary to get good sound , all misleading afaic
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