Tripoint Troy Elite - Installed

Folsom said:

The secret is which claims on the website are a lie. They cannot all be true - not in this reality. But if I was him I wouldn't share any information either. Fact is that even though it probably just spews RF into the lines, it creates a result people pay money for and are pleased with.



As stated before, it either does or does not create loops while the vice-versa is that it either does or does not normalize potentials. And this can be useful sometimes when you have too many separate but dirty lines back to the breaker. It isn't ideal to make extra paths, but it beats the hell out of irritating noise that is audible. The smart solution to normalize potentials is to the shortest runs possible. But isn't what happens when you're amps are by the speakers on separate AC lines than your sources all on the same one on a rack - where extra cables are a moot point essentially. So the best advice is probably don't use separate AC lines unless they're dedicated.

As far as engineering, that's a loaded question. Technically anything like this that would be almost assured to act like an antenna (based on all grounding boxes thus far, their description, and when I've heard them) is horrible "engineering". But that depends on what you're engineering for, if your goals are to engineer for exactly what they do, then you're doing awesome. But most engineers are waaay toooo egotistical to ever accept the idea of purposely loading up some RF.

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SuperDave said:

Voodoo? Have you tried a Tripoint product? I'm not offended, just curious. What is proper grounding and how does Tripoint not qualify? I've never claimed superiority but I don't want it out of my system either.

Dave

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ack said:

Apparently, people have not experimented with proper grounding before resorting to this voodoo, hence all these claims of superiority. That's the message that's been missing. It's not doing anything more than what proper engineering practices with respect to proper grounding can do.

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Mike Lavigne said:

now this is familiar ground. where 'since I have not heard it, and don't see how it could be different.......it's not possible'.

I'm sure everything that could be learned, has already been learned.....and you learned it.

btw; I've showed my Phd in Physics son-in-law the Tripoint boxes, and plugged and un-plugged them for him. he heard what they did. I asked him how he thought they worked.

he just shrugged his shoulders and said if I wanted to know how they worked, and would pay for the lab time to investigate, that he could investigate it. but that he could not guarantee 'the' answer......but he could give me 'an' answer. "we don't know everything".....is how he put it.

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Ron Resnick said:

Ack, Folsom: now you guys are posting exactly what Audiocrack was complaining about.

We have very experienced members who are swearing by these Tripoint products. Just because the manufacturer will not tell us how he thinks it works, and just because we do not know how it works, does not mean it is voodoo.

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ack said:

No one disputes that these devices have an effect, and that people hear it, and that it is even positive. What we are saying is that they cannot surpass proper and well established grounding techniques.

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sbo6 said:

Can you please give an example of what would constitute proper and well established grounding techniques assuming it's above employing quality 3 prong power cables and as per code electrical grounding for circuits, breakers and the breaker box?

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Audiocrack said:

Respectfully disagree, Micro, as regards the weak argument regarding DIY and competition. To me it is completely understandable that someone who invested large sums of money and countless hours to reach the level he is at at the moment keeps all important knowlegde for himself.

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Folsom said:

They have different goals, mate.

Mike likes his insane soundstage, and being able read the whole musical scene to a high degree. Your grounding methods do not exaggerate the high frequencies to create this same type of sound. You have entirely different goals.

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microstrip said:

Ok, if our disagreement is just on the DIY and competition part, it is not important. My main question is that manufacturers of thesze products use misleading technical specifications and sometimes ridiculous technical wording to please marketing. As soon as they enter this field, people are free to point these inaccuracies and denigrate their products. However if the message was simply "listen for yourself, we believe it will improve the sound quality of your system" people would not enter technical debates.


Although I am prepared to accept and even enjoy subjective hyperbole, I am less tolerant with techno pseudo scientific verbiage. Please note I am not pointing to any specif manufacturer, my comments are general.

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ack said:

No need to try anything that cannot outperform proper engineering techniques. The question is: has anyone tried proper grounding first, before spending money on this stuff? Doesn't look like it.

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sbo6 said:

Can you please give an example of what would constitute proper and well established grounding techniques assuming it's above employing quality 3 prong power cables and as per code electrical grounding for circuits, breakers and the breaker box?

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Mike Lavigne said:

now this is familiar ground. where 'since I have not heard it, and don't see how it could be different.......it's not possible'.

I'm sure everything that could be learned, has already been learned.....and you learned it.

btw; I've showed my Phd in Physics son-in-law the Tripoint boxes, and plugged and un-plugged them for him. he heard what they did. I asked him how he thought they worked.

he just shrugged his shoulders and said if I wanted to know how they worked, and would pay for the lab time to investigate, that he and his team could investigate it. but that he could not guarantee 'the' answer......but he could give me 'an' answer. "we don't know everything".....is how he put it.

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It turns out though that equipment can be grounded and not ground-looped at the same time and if this is properly done, will perform better in such a way that no grounding system will bring any further improvement. The only reason such systems exist at all is because grounding is so poorly understood by designers in high end audio. Too many are hobbyists without degrees...

The chassis should be hard-grounded to the ground connection at the wall, plain and simple. The audio circuitry within the chassis should not, but should be referenced by some means to chassis ground. If this is done properly, the result will be lower noise and smoother sound as ground loops can cause intermodulations and the chassis can then do its job of shielding. This is the big result many people get when using grounding systems, but if their equipment was properly grounded in the first place it would sound even better (and the add-on grounding systems would have no effect or actually be detrimental).

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bonzo75 said:

This post should be a sticky for everytime someone without experience of a product says they know what it's doing because they have tried a different product claiming similar benefits that they thought they knew what it was doing

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People create problems for themselves by making the AC power system way more complicated than it needs to be and plugging components into separate lines whose grounds don't tie together close enough to the audio system. The whole point of grounding is to create a reference voltage that is exactly the same everywhere in the system. In practice this can never happen, but the issues can be reduced significantly by following good grounding and power distribution practices.

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