I also have pianorecodings , also mastertapes play that on the B 62 different ballgame not in the same League .
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The end of the CD
- Thread starter KeithR
- Start date
Francisco,
you like to make me work a bit, ok. there are many to choose from for both digital recordings and analog recordings.
an obvious one is the Reference Recordings 'Arnold Overtures' which had twin mic feeds; one to analog tape, and the other to 176/24 digital. I have the original Lp, the Tape Project 15ips, 1/4" tape, the 176/24 HRx and the CD. this is not a top choice for the music or performance, although it's fine. but it is a truth machine for reality checking of formats and an excellent recording both digital and analog.
game, set, match to the Lp and tape. more real....greater note development and textural nuance. greater jump factor and scale. energizes the whole room. of course, don't waste your time with the recent Lp pressing 'mastercut' from the digital files....it sucks. the CD is better. :-(
get the original tape sourced Lp pressing.
for examples of great digital recordings, i'd choose the Ilia Itin, Debussy Preludes, in native quad dsd. fantastic grand piano recording. Wave Kinetics did this one both in Native Quad and also 1/2" 30ips tape from the same mic feed. I don't have a tape copy 'yet'......but the Quad files are fantastic.
another great digital recording is a recent dxd (352/24) recording from the Challenge Classic label, Debussy, Le Mer/Ravel, Ma Mere i'Oye conducted by Het Gelders Orkest. exceptional flow and sense of space and scale.....which really plays to the whole feeling of the music..
both of those digital recordings tic every box for what you might want from a classical recording. and about 50-60% of my listening is to digital classical recordings. these are two very good ones. there are many more like them, and more coming all the time.
for two more top recordings on vinyl, I will choose one classical, and one jazz.
the classical is a Cello Concreto by Dutilleux, featuring Rostropovitch; EMI ASD 3145, 33rpm Lp.
I've written about this one before. it is a magical romp (breaks all the rules perfectly) and will blow your mind if your vinyl front end and system is up to it. the recent addition of the Taiko Tana treatment to my Herzan TS-140 (under the NVS) has taken this gem to an even higher degree of suspension of disbelief. I don't have the musical vocabulary to even approach describing what my ears are hearing, so I will transcribe from the back liner notes about the first movement;
in any case, I can tell you this recording has so much information that each small step of my system these last few years has revealed another layer of mystical journey. this goes musical, experiential places no digital can reach in terms of holographic ethereal renderings. 4 years ago it just sounded like so much noise to me. I could not get very far into the listening. now my system is out of the way and it's come alive.
the last vinyl recording is a direct to disc from a bunch of Brits with a Dixiland Jazz Band recorded by a bunch of Germans in 1979 on the Jeton Lable. The Chris Barber Band, 'Come Friday', the cut I love is 'St. Louis Blues' on side 2. it's about 10 minutes, has a trombone solo, a guitar solo, then the whole band joins in for a rousing finish. this music drips with palpable reality. the whole performance envelope of the trombone and guitar is captured, and the meatiness of everything is quite breathtaking.
both these vinyl examples (to my ears, in my system) take suspension of disbelief to another place beyond. totally immersive. disarmingly real and engaging.
the 30,000 foot view is that top level digital does everything you might want......but top level vinyl with the better pressings and music just goes beyond if you need to do that. it's just more.
Thanks for your detailed and well thought report. I also own both the Tapeproject and the 176/24 HRx of the Arnold, curiously as the music is not my preferred and although spectacular I do not find the recording involving in either media, I did not dedicate the needed attention to them. IMHO Reference Recording chamber music is much more natural sounding than their orchestral works. To be honest, my first disappointment with HiRez was caused by the four free RR samples - somewhat corrected later when I found it was also due to poor matching of their balance to my system tuned to an "analog sounding" digital source - the Metronome system with a tube DAC. But I will listen again with due care.
Concerning your other interesting examples IMHO they show too much of musical, recording and mastering qualities, as well as personnel emotional involvement and system tuning to be used in a "cold blood" analysis. I have written similar words about the Sheffield direct cuts several times, but was confused when a DSD rip of the direct cut showed many of the magical properties of the LP.
IMHO our systems are reaching an extreme of subjective tweaking - I am also guilty of it - and our preferences reflect it. I have to admit that although many times I find great vinyl more involving than digital, I find myself in an higher degree of suspension of disbelief with some digital recordings. But I can not exclude that musical content can also play a role here. Surely my tape collection is limited to Tapeproject and my vinyl playing system, although decent sounding, is not an example of current SOTA.
My current main concern with digital is its high Q factor - a very small change can de-tune an whole system from sounding great to lousy, matching and predictability is much more critical than in analog.
@ AL. , But maybe im just talking crap. .
May be kedar and Ron could tell what they thought of the different r2r
May be kedar and Ron could tell what they thought of the different r2r
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reproductions, or may be they cant tell because they had to adjust to the acoustics to much.
Something i can listen through more or less
Something i can listen through more or less
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If it’s ironic that lp could outlive cd, it’s doubly ironic that tape/cassettes outlive it too.
Yes, the ability not to sound the same on each recording is important. It was one of the main reasons why I chose the Berkeley DAC at the time, because it revealed timbral/acoustic differences where other DACs that I auditioned homogenized everything into an after a while quite predictable color. At the time I found it particularly obvious on orchestral brass from different recordings.
Yet the Yggdrasil DAC is even better at that. For example, flute sounds darker on it than on the Berkeley, while trumpets can sound brighter and sharper. All revealing a greater timbral palette that, at least as I experience it, also conforms more with how instruments tend to sound live.
Whats also is quite funny , the best recorded music i have is done by an amateur , he had a couple of mikes and a small mixing console , from the equipment he used it looked quite primitive .
Makes me wonder what one could achieve himself , id love to record a good drumset
D dynamics ) , or an acoustic guitar , dont have to be promusicians , some amateurs /hobbiests play excelllent.
Just get a good stereomike postion record and see how it sounds
Makes me wonder what one could achieve himself , id love to record a good drumset
D dynamics ) , or an acoustic guitar , dont have to be promusicians , some amateurs /hobbiests play excelllent.Just get a good stereomike postion record and see how it sounds
In a train so can't write much but I thought the B62 was the best and also the telefunken was very musical.
Guys can this end of CD thread end and can we get back to the analog threads? Friendlier and more informative
Okay i made a new thread
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...me-recording-results-tips&p=494520#post494520
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...me-recording-results-tips&p=494520#post494520
Same as HDCD, any perceived or real benefit needed hardware implementation which required liscensing further driving costs up, not for the consumer market. Highenders did go for it but the problem was available players, most of the ones I heard were still low end commercial units and sounded as such, the few well made quality players cost a lot and were easily beat sonically by quality PCM transports. Maybe it was the hardware, or the software or a problem with both but IMO it offered less than RBCD.
david
Bits will probably outlive any analog physical media - it was one of the reasons of going digital - perfect regeneration capability of the information forever. The plastic CD is only the container - if the people of the future people want to they will be able to manufacture CD's in the 22nd century.
I have a few CD's that skipped in my transport - I managed to a perfect bit copy of them, DBpower confirmed it, and burned a new copy. Most cassettes have now poor magnetic and surface tape quality.
Are bits not stored on physical media...
I have lost a lot more bits over the years than I have vinyl.
Interview with Paul McGowan, PS Audio, starting minute 11:42 reaffirms CD & transports sound better than servers and possible reasons why. What continues are some of the still unresolved server/computer problems, hardware and format issues.
david
david
David,
Fortunately it was only 5 minutes filled with childish astonishment and the usual common place arguments. High-end is an art and the hard part is conveying this art through media. Our excellent transports that sound better add something to the bits - we can destroy it with a technically perfect (correct impedance) but inadequate digital cable. IMHO server designers lack the art of the great transport designers - these server people were mostly trained to design computer systems. They can minimize noise, but are firm believers that bits are just bits, nothing else. Just note that very few of them accept that a CD transport can sound better. They would hate to recognize they do not understand why! Surely some disagree because their subjective preference is different from ours - they really prefer the server sound signature.
I enjoy the banter more than gear talk and Paul’s pretty good at it. I agree with you there definitely is something in the mechanical side of transports tts and tape machines that the good designers are aware of but here you have Atkinson slipping in the CD sound quality after praising ease of use of servers and a server manufacturer agreeing with him. I found most of the interview fun to watch.
david
Compact discs whither?
Rumours of CDs’ death have been greatly exaggerated,
says Red Cat Records co-owner Dave Gowans.
Rumours of CDs’ death have been greatly exaggerated,
says Red Cat Records co-owner Dave Gowans.
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