Interconnect Recommendations for XP-15 -> XP-30?

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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Dave, Keith was asking largely on my behalf, as he knows I have to figure out this very long interconnect run. I promise you he was not trolling.

IMHO the relevant aspect is that you are excluding many possibilities of listening when you decide to select the cables having the system in its final position, and you risk spending a lot of resources and time, missing the fine tuning of the critical ingredient of your system.

Although I also have my sources on the side wall and need long ICs, in order to try cables I temporary moved the system close to the power amplifiers. I have long runs of Moghami XLR gold microphone and gold neglex - w2791 and w2534 - and they sound different. In my system any of them sounds inferior to my unfortunately much more expensive cable sets, and would seriously compromise the sound quality of my current system .

Surely a few manufacturers advise us to use these Mogami cables with their excellent equipment - but in very different conditions than those you will have. As always, people should read the small print.

BTW, if you want to try the Mogami's you should also get the Mogami speaker cables. As usual, IMHO, YMMV.
 

cjf

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2012
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please keep in mind your final placement may change a little once you put the high quality cables in due to the expansion and depth to the sound stage that the Mogami's can't deliver.

Not to pick a fight but this is a perfect example of what I am referring to in a previous post. While I wont argue that certain cables indeed do expand the sound stage and increase the depth of it I also don't believe its safe to say that the same cable offering such "benefits" is doing so because its more accurate to the source then a Mogami or similar studio cable.

I see no technical reason why a Mogami cable is unable to reproduce all the content that is really there to begin with compared to Brand X audiophile cable. Would anyone argue that the ultimate goal of any audio cable is to measure perfect zero's for all LCR values to be considered the "Perfect" transport that changes nothing? I would argue that whichever cable is closest to this ideal is the one you want for something like a long balanced run from PRE to AMP. Length is the enemy in this case.

Obviously the above mentioned perfect cable doesn't exist but there are some that get as close to that ideal as technically possible and I feel Mogami is probably one of them. Any cable measuring well outside of all zero's is simply adding flavor that isn't supposed to be there in the first place.

But with all that said, I wont argue that such truthfulness isn't always the one that sounds better subjectively to some folks, myself included. I've spent a bundle on fancy speaker cables (Kubala Sosna Elation) exactly for this reason. Whatever seasoning they are adding is pleasant to my own ears but I don't fool myself into thinking that its more accurate to the source because of its flavors. If I wanted nothing but truthfulness/accuracy I would use a Mogami for speaker wire instead. My preferred approach these days is to have a cable that adds/subtracts as close to nothing as possible leading all the way up to the Amps and then and only then do I choose to add salt/pepper via speaker wire.

There is plenty of seasoning added by the components themselves along the way as it is. The only way to figure out which cable is most "True" is to measure them and publish the numbers so the buyer can decide for themselves why perhaps the soundstage width and depth maybe so much greater between brands when comparing them.
 

DaveC

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Nov 16, 2014
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Not to pick a fight but this is a perfect example of what I am referring to in a previous post. While I wont argue that certain cables indeed do expand the sound stage and increase the depth of it I also don't believe its safe to say that the same cable offering such "benefits" is doing so because its more accurate to the source then a Mogami or similar studio cable.

I see no technical reason why a Mogami cable is unable to reproduce all the content that is really there to begin with compared to Brand X audiophile cable. Would anyone argue that the ultimate goal of any audio cable is to measure perfect zero's for all LCR values to be considered the "Perfect" transport that changes nothing? I would argue that whichever cable is closest to this ideal is the one you want for something like a long balanced run from PRE to AMP. Length is the enemy in this case.

Obviously the above mentioned perfect cable doesn't exist but there are some that get as close to that ideal as technically possible and I feel Mogami is probably one of them. Any cable measuring well outside of all zero's is simply adding flavor that isn't supposed to be there in the first place.

But with all that said, I wont argue that such truthfulness isn't always the one that sounds better subjectively to some folks, myself included. I've spent a bundle on fancy speaker cables (Kubala Sosna Elation) exactly for this reason. Whatever seasoning they are adding is pleasant to my own ears but I don't fool myself into thinking that its more accurate to the source because of its flavors. If I wanted nothing but truthfulness/accuracy I would use a Mogami for speaker wire instead. My preferred approach these days is to have a cable that adds/subtracts as close to nothing as possible leading all the way up to the Amps and then and only then do I choose to add salt/pepper via speaker wire.

There is plenty of seasoning added by the components themselves along the way as it is. The only way to figure out which cable is most "True" is to measure them and publish the numbers so the buyer can decide for themselves why perhaps the soundstage width and depth maybe so much greater between brands when comparing them.

The expanded soundstage is the result of the reproduction of spatial information, or echos in the recording venue. Or, spatial information may have been added after the music was recorded, so it's artificial. But either way I want to hear it because it is the basis of what forms the illusory experience of being in the recording venue rather than your listening room, or the "you are there" experience. Mogami cable is going to tend towards having a more amporhous soundstage, that is less 3-D and immersive, and sounds more like the performance is in your listening room. The reason this happens is because the copper wire in the Mogami cable, along with it's insulation, overlay a warmth over the sound of your system. This warmth smooths out detail. Besides the soundstage, this is also most apparent in fine details of vocals and string instruments. The additional resolution makes the sonic image seem more realistic, you can hear small details you can't with the Mogami cable. Overall, it's a large step towards higher fidelity and is often what separates a system that is simply good vs one that is excellent and memorable. Just IC cables can make this kind of difference.

On LCR, as I said before, it's not a primary factor in how short cables are going to sound. Metallurgy is by far more important. Publishing specs is mostly going to lead people to form misguided opinions on the cable and how it sounds.

On your KS cables, imo they are "voiced" a certain way. They are warm but maintain as much resolution as possible. Their IC cables tend to be high capacitance designs that sound lush and nice but not exactly super high resolution. They are often a good match with hard-coned speakers with metal, diamond or ribbon tweeters. This means they are not a good contrast with the Mogami cables, if you want to experience the difference I'm talking about you want to demo UPOCC silver cables. I'd be more than happy to send you a pair to try out, no cost, no expectations. I don't even expect you to like them, not everyone wants extremely clear cables, and finding ones without negative side-effects is not easy and the cables won't be cheap. Besides mine, which are actually a silver/gold alloy, other UPOCC silver cables include top end WireWorld and Siltech. Then there is the issue with fakes. If you google "UPOCC silver interconnect cables" the entire top row is counterfeit products. There is at least one company in the list on the 1st page that is not genuine either.
 

Leif S

Industry Expert
Feb 13, 2015
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Not to pick a fight but this is a perfect example of what I am referring to in a previous post. While I wont argue that certain cables indeed do expand the sound stage and increase the depth of it I also don't believe its safe to say that the same cable offering such "benefits" is doing so because its more accurate to the source then a Mogami or similar studio cable.

I see no technical reason why a Mogami cable is unable to reproduce all the content that is really there to begin with compared to Brand X audiophile cable. Would anyone argue that the ultimate goal of any audio cable is to measure perfect zero's for all LCR values to be considered the "Perfect" transport that changes nothing? I would argue that whichever cable is closest to this ideal is the one you want for something like a long balanced run from PRE to AMP. Length is the enemy in this case.

Obviously the above mentioned perfect cable doesn't exist but there are some that get as close to that ideal as technically possible and I feel Mogami is probably one of them. Any cable measuring well outside of all zero's is simply adding flavor that isn't supposed to be there in the first place.

But with all that said, I wont argue that such truthfulness isn't always the one that sounds better subjectively to some folks, myself included. I've spent a bundle on fancy speaker cables (Kubala Sosna Elation) exactly for this reason. Whatever seasoning they are adding is pleasant to my own ears but I don't fool myself into thinking that its more accurate to the source because of its flavors. If I wanted nothing but truthfulness/accuracy I would use a Mogami for speaker wire instead. My preferred approach these days is to have a cable that adds/subtracts as close to nothing as possible leading all the way up to the Amps and then and only then do I choose to add salt/pepper via speaker wire.

There is plenty of seasoning added by the components themselves along the way as it is. The only way to figure out which cable is most "True" is to measure them and publish the numbers so the buyer can decide for themselves why perhaps the soundstage width and depth maybe so much greater between brands when comparing them.

Hi cjf,

I wouldn't be surprised if I had as much or more experience with the Mogami cables than anyone else hear given my Pro Audio background with large scale concert venues. Mogami's are not neutral at all and do very much add a flavor. In Pro Audio that flavor can be adjusted since there are all kinds of eq's in the system. But if someone likes the sound of the Mogami cables then that's great and they saved tons of money. We often at shows in these larger rooms will use Mogami interconnects and cheap speaker cables and a couple small monoblock amps and a source to help us determine where are general placement will be before we set up all the electronics and amps for the show. This works out very well and saves us a lot of time. And the final placement has always changed a bit but the Mogami's got us close enough.

There is plenty of seasoning added by the components themselves along the way as it is. The only way to figure out which cable is most "True" is to measure them and publish the numbers so the buyer can decide for themselves why perhaps the soundstage width and depth maybe so much greater between brands when comparing them.

There is not a measurement in the world that can tell you how a cable can sound! (That comment will probably stir up the conversation which is not my intention)
We have designed ruler flat speakers that haven't sounded good even though all the measurements show it should. There are so many other factors involved it can make your head spin. Dave touches on many good points.
 

sbo6

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May 18, 2014
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Hi cjf,

I wouldn't be surprised if I had as much or more experience with the Mogami cables than anyone else hear given my Pro Audio background with large scale concert venues. Mogami's are not neutral at all and do very much add a flavor. In Pro Audio that flavor can be adjusted since there are all kinds of eq's in the system. But if someone likes the sound of the Mogami cables then that's great and they saved tons of money. We often at shows in these larger rooms will use Mogami interconnects and cheap speaker cables and a couple small monoblock amps and a source to help us determine where are general placement will be before we set up all the electronics and amps for the show. This works out very well and saves us a lot of time. And the final placement has always changed a bit but the Mogami's got us close enough.

There is plenty of seasoning added by the components themselves along the way as it is. The only way to figure out which cable is most "True" is to measure them and publish the numbers so the buyer can decide for themselves why perhaps the soundstage width and depth maybe so much greater between brands when comparing them.

There is not a measurement in the world that can tell you how a cable can sound! (That comment will probably stir up the conversation which is not my intention)
We have designed ruler flat speakers that haven't sounded good even though all the measurements show it should. There are so many other factors involved it can make your head spin. Dave touches on many good points.

I worked in pro audio (semi pro musician) for years and the reality is - the vast majority of folks for either a live venue or recording session don't care about what brand cable is being used. The biggest concern is reliability which is mostly contingent on the connector quality to avoid opens / short (no sound and / or hum). Also, loss of high frequencies from cables like Mogami can't be EQ'd back in - at least not in a natural sounding way.
 

Leif S

Industry Expert
Feb 13, 2015
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I set up a small line array system using the MasterBuilt cables and all of our jaws bounced off the floor. Nobody in their right mind would even consider cables like this for Pro Audio lol. But we do wire commercial speaker enclosures with the MB wire when we get contracted. I have wired all my guitar cabinets with the MB wire as well as my speaker cables and patch cables. Impossible for me to go back.
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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I set up a small line array system using the MasterBuilt cables and all of our jaws bounced off the floor. Nobody in their right mind would even consider cables like this for Pro Audio lol.

There are a lot of us "Pro Audio" folks that have invested in over $100k in cables.....
 

Leif S

Industry Expert
Feb 13, 2015
770
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California
www.vonschweikert.com

cjf

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2012
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There are a lot of us "Pro Audio" folks that have invested in over $100k in cables.....

Lol...I know of a few audiophile brands that at this price point it only covers the speaker cable aspect assuming typical Pro Audio distances.

Guess you gotta pay to play and,Heh, you only live once :)
 

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