Sme 3012 R

PeterA · Jul 18, 2018

dminches said:
Peter, I really don't have any impressions to share because I have not listened to the same cartridge on both arms. Setting up the cartridge seems to take so long that the thought of removing it and setting it up on a 2nd arm is overwhelming.

If someone wanted to spend a day here and do it I would welcome it.

I understand. Which cartridge is on which arm and do you have a preference for one combination over the other and how would you describe the sound of the two combinations ?

Tango · Jul 18, 2018

PeterA said:
I understand. Which cartridge is on which arm and do you have a preference for one combination over the other and how would you describe the sound of the two combinations ?

It is a surprisingly good arm Peter. Comparing to my SAT/Opus combo, my SME/GFS combo is surely in the same league. The SME/GFS has better overall articulation and instrument distinction, better bass, and little better dynamic/pop. I was comparing the two combos yesterday playing LA4 Peacock 45 album, the drums in the back stage were more articulate, distinct and deeper with SME/GFS. Although What I hear is likely more of the cart and less or arm, in order to hear this at comparable clarity and resolution of SAT/Opus, the SME has got to be very neutral and possess good characteristics that SAT does. (Btw, for me hearing more cart and less arm is a very good thing.) The degree of each characteristic is to find out in the future. I have 65 hours on SME/GFS now. The combo keeps getting better and better in term of bass, tone and decay. I don’t think I am early to say this SME is a no-brainer given $3,500 a pop. Dietrich told me the 3012R was designed for a Shure V15 mm cart with low weight and the GFS will sound better on either SAT or Axiom. Maybe so. But what I am hearing now is pretty darnn good.

Kind regards,
Tang

miniguy · Jul 18, 2018

Tango said:
It is a surprisingly good arm Peter. Comparing to my SAT/Opus combo, my SME/GFS combo is surely in the same league. The SME/GFS has better overall articulation and instrument distinction, better bass, and little better dynamic/pop. Although What I hear is likely more of the cart and less or arm, in order to hear this at comparable clarity and resolution of SAT/Opus, the SME has got to be very neutral and possess good characteristics that SAT does. The degree of each characteristic is to find out in the future. I have 65 hours on SME/GFS now. The combo keeps getting better and better in term of bass, tone and decay. I don’t think I am early to say this SME is a no-brainer given $3,500 a pop. Dietrich told me the 3012R was designed for a Shure V15 mm cart with low weight and the GFS will sound better on either SAT or Axiom. Maybe so. But what I am hearing now is pretty darnn good.

Kind regards,
Tang

Regardless of the different cartridges involved here, I read this as tantamount to an indictment of over-the-top priced tonearms. IMHO, that kind of money can be better applied elsewhere in a system.

PeterA · Jul 18, 2018

Tango said:
It is a surprisingly good arm Peter. Comparing to my SAT/Opus combo, my SME/GFS combo is surely in the same league. The SME/GFS has better overall articulation and instrument distinction, better bass, and little better dynamic/pop. Although What I hear is likely more of the cart and less or arm, in order to hear this at comparable clarity and resolution of SAT/Opus, the SME has got to be very neutral and possess good characteristics that SAT does. The degree of each characteristic is to find out in the future. I have 65 hours on SME/GFS now. The combo keeps getting better and better in term of bass, tone and decay. I don’t think I am early to say this SME is a no-brainer given $3,500 a pop. Dietrich told me the 3012R was designed for a Shure V15 mm cart with low weight and the GFS will sound better on either SAT or Axiom. Maybe so. But what I am hearing now is pretty darnn good.

Kind regards,
Tang

Thank you Tango. I wonder if Deitrich has directly compared the 3012R to either the SAT or Axiom in order to make such a statement.

Lagonda · Jul 18, 2018

My 3012R sounds great with the relative heavy Benz LPS !

Tango · Jul 18, 2018

PeterA said:
Thank you Tango. I wonder if Deitrich has directly compared the 3012R to either the SAT or Axiom in order to make such a statement.

No he didn’t. What he said about the SME and Shure was not his opinion but a manufacturer’s words that you can google to see. His opinion is as an arm designer with approach to steer his product to how modern mc carts are designed. I shouldn’t have mentioned his name. It was a personal text message. Sorry D.

Kind regards,
Tang

rockitman · Jul 18, 2018

Cart Weight is not an issue. The arm excels with SPU’s weighing 30+ grams. I’m afraid Mr. D is wrong about the 3012 needing a light cart.

Solypsa · Jul 18, 2018

dminches said:
Peter, I really don't have any impressions to share because I have not listened to the same cartridge on both arms. Setting up the cartridge seems to take so long that the thought of removing it and setting it up on a 2nd arm is overwhelming.

If someone wanted to spend a day here and do it I would welcome it.

If you are in Washington lets talk, if the schedule works I would consider donating my time to setup this interesting experiment.

Solypsa · Jul 18, 2018

rockitman said:
Cart Weight is not an issue. The arm excels with SPU’s weighing 30+ grams. I’m afraid Mr. D is wrong about the 3012 needing a light cart.

There were a few series of the 3009/3012 and indeed some are oriented to low mass and high compliance. The 'R' was a return to an earlier (higher mass oriented) style.

PeterA · Jul 19, 2018

rockitman said:
Cart Weight is not an issue. The arm excels with SPU’s weighing 30+ grams. I’m afraid Mr. D is wrong about the 3012 needing a light cart.

Christian, have you tried any of your modern MC cartridges on your 3012R yet, like the Dynavector, Ortofon, or even the Koetsu stone bodies?

dminches · Jul 19, 2018

PeterA said:
I understand. Which cartridge is on which arm and do you have a preference for one combination over the other and how would you describe the sound of the two combinations ?

Peter,

At one point I had the Etna SL on the Telos and a Micro Benz LPS on the SME 3012R and they were both very enjoyable. The LPS is definitely warmer than the Etna SL but for some recordings I preferred it over the other combination.

For reference, I listen mostly rock and jazz; very little classical which I know is a favorite or yours.

rockitman · Jul 19, 2018

PeterA said:
Christian, have you tried any of your modern MC cartridges on your 3012R yet, like the Dynavector, Ortofon, or even the Koetsu stone bodies?

I have the Dynavector XV-1t on one 3012R, SPU (various) on the other and an Lyra Olympos SL mono on the third. I plan to try my Koetsu Coralstone Diamond in the not too distant future. It is on a Graham 12" currently.

Tango · Jul 24, 2018

Yesterday, David was teaching me how simple the setup could be with the 3012R. I had quite a few audio designers in my room tweaking things. But I must say Mr.Karmeli 30 kgs overweight worked hardest to extract every bit of sound. The first thing he did after listening to my system a few songs was to turn off my subs. Then, When he was working on my AtlasSL, he said “this is almost it.” And I should not have said “it has to be 100%” because he ended up spending another hour fine tuning VTA and I was very hungry for dinner. Now my AtlasSL is on the 3012R. Out of the three carts I have on AS2000, GFS, Opus, AtlasSL. The AtlasSL caught David’s attention most. When he first listened, it was on the Axiom. And of course he thinks it could sound better if put on 3012R. I also wanted to know what 3012R has to offer. So we moved the Atlas SL to the SME. Now I must admit I never heard the AtlasSL sounded better than I am hearing now. He made me write down all steps and related figures. Normally I would be saying things for someone to write but with this setup things he is the boss

. Anyway, I want to say that. I have a few very expensive arms in my system. What I am hearing from Atlas/SME is wonderful. The SME only cost a fraction of the modern arms. David also made me use the regular phono cable that came with the 3012R so I don’t really need to pay extra for expensive cable. This is an excellent deal in my opinion. Today we will install another 3012R and put Opus on it. He didn’t like it when on SAT (I mean the whole SAT/Opus setup not blaming SAT.) and I want to prove him wrong about the Opus before he leaves Bangkok. We will also move the GFS to SAT and see if it sounds better on this modern arm. A lot of work for David. I just sit back put my feet on my glass table and listen..hehe

. With all the glasses I have in my room, David thinks my room is on a damped side. I am having a fun time.

Btw, I still have my kitten litter boxes connected to components.

Kind regards,
Tang

Ron Resnick · Jul 24, 2018

Very interesting, Tang!

Wonderful work, David!

dminches · Jul 24, 2018

Sounds like a lot of fun for you and work for David.

Post more pictures!

rockitman · Jul 24, 2018

Tango said:
Yesterday, David was teaching me how simple the setup could be with the 3012R. I had quite a few audio designers in my room tweaking things. But I must say Mr.Karmeli 30 kgs overweight worked hardest to extract every bit of sound. The first thing he did after listening to my system a few songs was to turn off my subs. Then, When he was working on my AtlasSL, he said “this is almost it.” And I should not have said “it has to be 100%” because he ended up spending another hour fine tuning VTA and I was very hungry for dinner. Now my AtlasSL is on the 3012R. Out of the three carts I have on AS2000, GFS, Opus, AtlasSL. The AtlasSL caught David’s attention most. When he first listened, it was on the Axiom. And of course he thinks it could sound better if put on 3012R. I also wanted to know what 3012R has to offer. So we moved the Atlas SL to the SME. Now I must admit I never heard the AtlasSL sounded better than I am hearing now. He made me write down all steps and related figures. Normally I would be saying things for someone to write but with this setup things he is the boss . Anyway, I want to say that. I have a few very expensive arms in my system. What I am hearing from Atlas/SME is wonderful. The SME only cost a fraction of the modern arms. David also made me use the regular phono cable that came with the 3012R so I don’t really need to pay extra for expensive cable. This is an excellent deal in my opinion. Today we will install another 3012R and put Opus on it. He didn’t like it when on SAT (I mean the whole SAT/Opus setup not blaming SAT.) and I want to prove him wrong about the Opus before he leaves Bangkok. We will also move the GFS to SAT and see if it sounds better on this modern arm. A lot of work for David. I just sit back put my feet on my glass table and listen..hehe . With all the glasses I have in my room, David thinks my room is on a damped side. I am having a fun time.

Btw, I still have my kitten litter boxes connected to components.

Kind regards,
Tang

View attachment 42875

David is highly detailed and not in a rush to get things setup and optimized. The SME is truly a special arm....the bayonet mount system offers so much cart flexibility...both modern and vintage. The 3012R is just a pipeline that let’s all the music flow unabated. How do you like David’s alignment gauge for SME ? I love it. Makes alignment fast with no possible injury to cart during the alignment process.

pcosta · Jul 24, 2018

Nice Tango. Keep the details coming.

I will have to pick your brain David on setting up my SME to the fullest when you get back home.

Paul

Lagonda · Jul 24, 2018

Tango said:
Yesterday, David was teaching me how simple the setup could be with the 3012R. I had quite a few audio designers in my room tweaking things. But I must say Mr.Karmeli 30 kgs overweight worked hardest to extract every bit of sound.

Tang, you are not supposed to weigh the installer, only the weight of the needle in the groove is important !

Ron Resnick · Jul 24, 2018

Tang, where is your AS-2000 air pump located? Is it in the equipment room?

Tango · Jul 25, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
Tang, where is your AS-2000 air pump located? Is it in the equipment room?

It is on the floor on the right side of Stacore rack, Ron. No disturbance if what you are wondering. It is very light and much smaller comparing to air pump of different tts. It runs quietly.

Tang

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