USB versus Ethernet - a study reveals the winner

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
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What do you dislike less - the CD or the equivalent vinyl coming from the digital master?
They're pretty much the same thing to me, the nature of the animal doesn't change because of the playback hardware. I can play the vinyl on any of my turntables and then play you the CD through the CEC/Weiss and aside from some tonal color there's no difference so I will buy the CD over the vinyl every time. I would have dumped all the tt's and my records if I thought that digital has crossed over but don't get me wrong I enjoy a lot of digital music and play a lot of it too but it's nothing like great analog.

david
 

Marcin_gps

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Jun 24, 2015
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The word (CD) transport is usually reserved to CD spinners - computers are usually called servers. But yes, computer audio is a jungle ...

Servers serve some content - in our case music. Music server is not necessairly a transport. In my experience it shouldn't be as separating a server from a transport sounds better.

Best regards,
Marcin
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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Just to point that during the last few days I have been listening to computer audio through a modest PC server fitted with a recently arrived JCAT NET CARD FEMTO. This card is really a winner for ethernet servers. I have two similar Roon servers assembled from old PC's - W7, >8 year old processors, 4G but with SDD and I can compare them just swapping the RJ45 cable and disabling/activating the machines in Roon.

The server with the JCAT FEMTO sounds more fluid, with greater resolution and better delineation of the music. Listening to old piano recordings of less good recordings quality was rewarding - the music seems less embedded in the nasty aspects of the recording. Even bass seems to have more authority. Soon I will connect the card power supply input to battery based linear power supply.
 

Marcin_gps

VIP Donor/Industry Expert
Jun 24, 2015
235
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jcat.eu
Just to point that during the last few days I have been listening to computer audio through a modest PC server fitted with a recently arrived JCAT NET CARD FEMTO. This card is really a winner for ethernet servers. I have two similar Roon servers assembled from old PC's - W7, >8 year old processors, 4G but with SDD and I can compare them just swapping the RJ45 cable and disabling/activating the machines in Roon.

The server with the JCAT FEMTO sounds more fluid, with greater resolution and better delineation of the music. Listening to old piano recordings of less good recordings quality was rewarding - the music seems less embedded in the nasty aspects of the recording. Even bass seems to have more authority. Soon I will connect the card power supply input to battery based linear power supply.

Thanks for the report. I told you :)
 

marslo

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May 2, 2014
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Servers serve some content - in our case music. Music server is not necessairly a transport. In my experience it shouldn't be as separating a server from a transport sounds better.

Best regards,
Marcin

Marcin,

As you know, I decided to go server way many years ago after my first good experience with files and your Jplay in hibernate mode.
Then came Aurender S10 followed by his more mature sibling , W20.
The W 20 is battery powered so my first suprise was the impact of good power cord.
Then I was even more suprised when I installed your Lan cable between the wall and W20, the cable which is out of function when music is played. I could even hear the difference between standard Jcat Lan cable and the reference version, which I could hardly believe:)
Next step was the usb cable to my Lampi without power supply , so called " unpowered" usb.
Your Jcat unpowered reference has in my opinion best price / quality ratio .I found better but also for much more dollars ( or rather Polish zloty:))- Apricity usb cable, still unpowered.
My next step was upgrading my B7 to the new Amanero board with more precise clock , wich I decided to downgrade to the old less pricise version after two weeks or so because the sound became too digital and less analog to my ears.
I do not have a NAS and do not intend to install one unless it will be obvious that the Ethernet DAC will be no brainer.
Just my 2 cents.
As far as vinyl, cd/ sacd and files playback are concerned, every source has its own characteristic, I am unable to decide which one is better.
For the convenience and quality I buy hires and native dsd, for the content old sacd recorded with analog mikes and vinyl- because if well recorded - is closest to the soul of music imho.
But I listen mostly to files, to vinyl only on weekends when I am more relaxed.
Sacd's mainly when I buy a new disc before I make a dsd ripp with my Pioneer Bdp 160.
 
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Marcin_gps

VIP Donor/Industry Expert
Jun 24, 2015
235
171
420
jcat.eu
The word (CD) transport is usually reserved to CD spinners - computers are usually called servers. But yes, computer audio is a jungle ...

Marcin,

As you know, I decided to go server way many years ago after my first good experience with files and your Jplay in hibernate mode.
Then came Aurender S10 followed by his more mature sibling , W20.
The W 20 is battery powered so my first suprise was the impact of good power cord.
Then I was even more suprised when I installed your Lan cable between the wall and W20, the cable which is out of function when music is played. I could even hear the difference between standard Jcat Lan cable and the reference version, which I could hardly believe:)
Next step was the usb cable to my Lampi without power supply , so called " unpowered" usb.
Your Jcat unpowered reference has in my opinion best price / quality ratio .I found better but also for much more dollars ( or rather Polish zloty:))- Apricity usb cable, still unpowered.
My next step was upgrading my B7 to the new Amanero board with more precise clock , wich I decided to downgrade to the old less pricise version after two weeks or so because the sound became too digital and less analog to my ears.
I do not have a NAS and do not intend to install one unless it will be obvious that the Ethernet DAC will be no brainer.
Just my 2 cents.
As far as vinyl, cd/ sacd and files playback are concerned, every source has its own characteristic, I am unable to decide which one is better.
For the convenience and quality I buy hires and native dsd, for the content old sacd recorded with analog mikes and vinyl- because if well recorded - is closest to the soul of music imho.
But I listen mostly to files, to vinyl only on weekends when I am more relaxed.
Sacd's mainly when I buy a new disc before I make a dsd ripp with my Pioneer Bdp 160.

Hi marslo!

What I meant by my previous posts is to emphasize the importance of LAN network on sound quality in any file based digital frontend. Even if network is used only for transmitting playback commands between a remote app and a server/transport. You've witnessed yourself that a higher end LAN cable from a LAN outlet to the Aurender caused quite a difference.
BTW - you might want to check out HighFidelity on 1st of March ;)

Best regards,
Marcin
 

marslo

VIP/Donor
May 2, 2014
953
674
605
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Hi marslo!

What I meant by my previous posts is to emphasize the importance of LAN network on sound quality in any file based digital frontend. Even if network is used only for transmitting playback commands between a remote app and a server/transport. You've witnessed yourself that a higher end LAN cable from a LAN outlet to the Aurender caused quite a difference.
BTW - you might want to check out HighFidelity on 1st of March ;)

Best regards,
Marcin

Sure, I will:)
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
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Hi marslo!

What I meant by my previous posts is to emphasize the importance of LAN network on sound quality in any file based digital frontend. Even if network is used only for transmitting playback commands between a remote app and a server/transport. You've witnessed yourself that a higher end LAN cable from a LAN outlet to the Aurender caused quite a difference.
BTW - you might want to check out HighFidelity on 1st of March ;)

Best regards,
Marcin

The learning across all of the forums on the web is that with Ethernet, the most important thing you can do is insure that the Earth-Ground of your AC power is connected to the DC common of the Router or Switch you are using.

If you do this, the need for expensive Ethernet cables diminishes. Off-the-shelf CAT7 is usually sufficient. Isolators like the EMO EN-70e are also helpful in reducing leakage noise, which is the problem being solved here.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Sablon Audio

Industry Expert, VIP Donor
May 22, 2015
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The learning across all of the forums on the web is that with Ethernet, the most important thing you can do is insure that the Earth-Ground of your AC power is connected to the DC common of the Router or Switch you are using.

If you do this, the need for expensive Ethernet cables diminishes. Off-the-shelf CAT7 is usually sufficient. Isolators like the EMO EN-70e are also helpful in reducing leakage noise, which is the problem being solved here.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Steve, what approach would you recommend for those using either balanced ac power and / or routers with ungrounded Class II power inputs (2 wire figure 8 iecs)?

Fwiw I have tried the EMO and found it to lose high freguency extension / ‘air’. YMMV.
 
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Empirical Audio

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Oct 12, 2017
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Steve, what approach would you recommend for those using either balanced ac power and / or routers with ungrounded Class II power inputs (2 wire figure 8 iecs)?

The best solution is probably a stranded 12 gauge wire with a banana plug on one end that can be inserted into the outlet ground hole and the other end of the wire to be connected in the DC cable, by either opening a bit of the insulation and soldering on to the negative lead, or by using some kind of DC plug adapter that would allow you to insert a bare wire and screw down on it.

Fwiw I have tried the EMO and found it to lose high freguency extension / ‘air’. YMMV.

Which one did you try? I found all of them to color the sound except for the 70e.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Jeffy

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2014
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Orchard Lake, MI
Steve I have the Emosafe EN-70HD; is this ok? I grounded the switch, but did not ground the local wireless router. I think you said that isn't necessary.
 

Sablon Audio

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May 22, 2015
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Which one did you try? I found all of them to color the sound except for the 70e.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

It was the 70e Steve. It seemed more closed down on high frequencies than the GISO I used some time ago. Tbh this result was consistent with a number of different TVC preamps I have used over the years with differing systems and also an interstage traffo coupled valve power amp. Traffo coupling does not seem to do it for me.
 

nonesup

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Feb 15, 2017
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The learning across all of the forums on the web is that with Ethernet, the most important thing you can do is insure that the Earth-Ground of your AC power is connected to the DC common of the Router or Switch you are using.

If you do this, the need for expensive Ethernet cables diminishes. Off-the-shelf CAT7 is usually sufficient. Isolators like the EMO EN-70e are also helpful in reducing leakage noise, which is the problem being solved here.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

It is not my experience. Being controlled the Earth-Ground issue in the switch, when I went from generic Cat 7 to AQ Cinnamon there was improvement and I had it again when I went from Cinnamon to Diamond.
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
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Steve I have the Emosafe EN-70HD; is this ok? I grounded the switch, but did not ground the local wireless router. I think you said that isn't necessary.

Not okay. The EN-70e is the good one. Believe it or not, the cheaper one is the better one. I sent back the HD that I had and swapped for a 70e. They don't usually refund or exchange, but I bought a number from them, so they mad an exception.

You only need to ground the DC negative on the device that wires directly to your DAC.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
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It is not my experience. Being controlled the Earth-Ground issue in the switch, when I went from generic Cat 7 to AQ Cinnamon there was improvement and I had it again when I went from Cinnamon to Diamond.

Are you saying that the DC negative in the DC power cable/connector is connected to earth-ground? Have verified this with an ohmmeter?

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
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It was the 70e Steve. It seemed more closed down on high frequencies than the GISO I used some time ago. Tbh this result was consistent with a number of different TVC preamps I have used over the years with differing systems and also an interstage traffo coupled valve power amp. Traffo coupling does not seem to do it for me.

I will go back and listen with and without it.

You already have 2 transformers even without the isolator with Ethernet.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
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www.empiricalaudio.com
I will go back and listen with and without it.

You already have 2 transformers even without the isolator with Ethernet.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Okay, I listened with and without the EMO EN-70e and WITH is definitely BETTER, a LOT better. Not only do I not detect any roll-off, the focus of percussion is much improved, much more live. Everything is more live, acoustic guitar, water sounds, cymbols and falling rain.

I use the EN-70e with inexpensive CAT7 cables from Amazon, TNP brand. Very good cable, very cheap. It is important to use a short cable, like 1.5 feet from the router or switch to the EN-70e and then a 1.5-2m length from the EN-70e to the DAC.

My router is properly grounded.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

nonesup

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Feb 15, 2017
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Are you saying that the DC negative in the DC power cable/connector is connected to earth-ground? Have verified this with an ohmmeter?

Steve N.
Empirical Audio


B6E94288-E61C-4108-B63F-ED433D7ACEDE.jpg

Hi Steve. This definitely exceeds mu knowledge

To have an LPS that powers my AQVOX Switch and this LPS has a Shunyata Alfa NR cable that has three poles; current, neutral and earth. In addition, the switch has a cable with RJ45 connector that goes to an Entreq box. I thought that with this the subject of the land was requested. However, you talk to me about the negative terminal of the DC connector and it is something I do not understand. What DC power connector are you referring to ?, the cable that leaves the LPS and connects to the Switch, like the one that I am in the picture?
Regards
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
1,169
207
150
Great Pacific Northwest
www.empiricalaudio.com
View attachment 38875

Hi Steve. This definitely exceeds mu knowledge

To have an LPS that powers my AQVOX Switch and this LPS has a Shunyata Alfa NR cable that has three poles; current, neutral and earth. In addition, the switch has a cable with RJ45 connector that goes to an Entreq box. I thought that with this the subject of the land was requested. However, you talk to me about the negative terminal of the DC connector and it is something I do not understand. What DC power connector are you referring to ?, the cable that leaves the LPS and connects to the Switch, like the one that I am in the picture?
Regards

The negative is the outer part of the contact you are showing in the picture, Inside the barrel is the positive usually.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

nonesup

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Feb 15, 2017
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Ok Steve.
I have a multimeter with which measured the bias of my previous AR Ref 150. Could you explain how to know if that negative pole is connected to earth?
 

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