New to Turntables - Looking for advise

CDub

Well-Known Member
Jan 23, 2018
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13
113
Hi all! I'm new to the forum and new to the world of Vinyl. I purchased an Acoustic Solid turntable w/ WTB211 arm with a Artist V2 Ebony MM Cartridge. My intent was to start slow but get something that I could possible upgrade, if I got the bug. Well I have the bug!! but I'm still learning. I'm trying to understand what is a better upgrade? I was thinking about upgrading to a SME arm, or upgrading my cartridge? Would it make sense to upgrade the whole table? I'm unable to listen to differences between tables as the audio dealers close to me don't really focus on analog. So I have to look at forums like this and article reviews.

How much can a arm upgrade the sound? Should it come before the cartridge?
Is my current table and arm fine? Is it best to get a better cartridge? I'm looking at the Dynavector xx2 mkii and possible the SME Series V-12 arm. I have no idea if this arm will even be able to be installed on my turntable.

I just don't know enough to make a informed discussion. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!

I like a warm sounding system with great detail and presence.
Here is a break down of my system:

VAC Sign MK IIa - PreAmp
Dali MS-5 - Speakers
Chord Dave - DAC
WireWorld Silver Eclipse 7 - Cables
Rel G2 - Sub
Oppo 103


Thanks all.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Beverly Hills, CA
Welcome to WBF, CDub! You have come to the right place to answer these questions!
 

Solypsa

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2017
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www.solypsa.com
Everything matters

If I had to put an order to it, however, I would say
1) table 2) arm 3) cart

Cart/arm/phono pre kinda need to be considered as a unit too though.
Oh well back to everything matters!
 
Last edited:

CDub

Well-Known Member
Jan 23, 2018
30
13
113
Everything matters

If I had to put an order to jt, however, I would say
1) table 2) arm 3) cart

Cart/arm/phono pre kinda need to be considered as a unit too though.
Oh well back to everything matters!

Thanks so much for replying... I was doing some additional searching on the web around this topic and I came across this http://www.vinylmeplease.com/magazine/when-to-upgrade-your-turntable-and-when-to-trade-up/

What I'm finding is... like Solypsa said "everything matters" so I'm getting the sense that, it might make better sense for me to upgrade my table and arm if possible, rather then just trying to upgrade a piece here or a piece their. Then once I settle in on a Table / Arm, get a good Cartridge that mates well with it.

Does that sound right?

Thanks again all.
 

Solypsa

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2017
1,811
1,399
275
Seattle
www.solypsa.com
Also a cartridge that can show it's best with your phono preamp. (Output and loading compatibility)
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
There's a lot more to owning a good and functioning LP front end than purchasing a bunch of recommended parts and sounds like you're going to need help with every aspects of it including setup, you're better off finding a knowledgeable dealer close to where you are and work with him!

david

Hi all! I'm new to the forum and new to the world of Vinyl. I purchased an Acoustic Solid turntable w/ WTB211 arm with a Artist V2 Ebony MM Cartridge. My intent was to start slow but get something that I could possible upgrade, if I got the bug. Well I have the bug!! but I'm still learning. I'm trying to understand what is a better upgrade? I was thinking about upgrading to a SME arm, or upgrading my cartridge? Would it make sense to upgrade the whole table? I'm unable to listen to differences between tables as the audio dealers close to me don't really focus on analog. So I have to look at forums like this and article reviews.

How much can a arm upgrade the sound? Should it come before the cartridge?
Is my current table and arm fine? Is it best to get a better cartridge? I'm looking at the Dynavector xx2 mkii and possible the SME Series V-12 arm. I have no idea if this arm will even be able to be installed on my turntable.

I just don't know enough to make a informed discussion. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!

I like a warm sounding system with great detail and presence.
Here is a break down of my system:

VAC Sign MK IIa - PreAmp
Dali MS-5 - Speakers
Chord Dave - DAC
WireWorld Silver Eclipse 7 - Cables
Rel G2 - Sub
Oppo 103


Thanks all.
 

awsmone

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2014
1,616
513
435
Canberra Australia
if you want upgrade ability pick a table that allows you to alter things and build

with cartridges arm and phono compatibility are important

clear audio allow upgrade of their top end line, or linn though imho these are very expensive for what u get

also to consider is a classic turntable like thorens 124 which has array of aftermarket additions including plinth, arm boards and other mods through schooper etc
 

twitch

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2010
594
236
1,605
SE Pa
There's a lot more to owning a good and functioning LP front end than purchasing a bunch of recommended parts and sounds like you're going to need help with every aspects of it including setup, you're better off finding a knowledgeable dealer close to where you are and work with him!

david

or get a copy of Fremer's DVD on turntable set-up
 

CDub

Well-Known Member
Jan 23, 2018
30
13
113
There's a lot more to owning a good and functioning LP front end than purchasing a bunch of recommended parts and sounds like you're going to need help with every aspects of it including setup, you're better off finding a knowledgeable dealer close to where you are and work with him!

david

Agreed, their is definitely a lot to understand about having a niece Analog rig. My goal is not to fall into a trap of blinding going in and purchase something but rather, get myself more informed. That way, when I go into a store, I have a better idea of what I'm looking for, rather then, having them push a certain product. I would love to go in so I can hear the difference of a good tonearm, turntable or cartridge but, it's never a good comparison "most times I'm listening on different setups". So it's hard for me to get a understanding for how much a tonearm or turntable add's to the overall sound? This is alluding me and I hope to get opinion's from those who have went down that road... and pass along some words of wisdom... Good advice on finding a dealer... does anyone have any recommendations in the DC Metro Area. I live outside of it but it's the closes place I could drive to.

Thanks all and I really appropriated everyone's opinion's.
 

CDub

Well-Known Member
Jan 23, 2018
30
13
113
Hi all, thought I would provide a follow up from my quest to learn more about my Analog setup. My hope is that it might help other newbies like I.

I decided to address my issue holistically.

So I first asked myself, what am I looking for? What sound am I trying to achieve?

As a reference... I like a warm sound, with lots of detail, 3D sound stage "I want my speakers to disappear" and a dark background.

With that said, I followed the advice of the forum members and found some dealers, where I could find a reference sound that I could use.

Here are a few of the setup I auditioned:
VTL 7.5 III, VTL 6.5 Phono, Ayre MX-R, Linn LP12 and Magnepan 20.7
Sutherland Phono Block, Ayre amp, Focal Sopra No 3, AMG VIELLA V12 TURNTABLE
Aesthetix phono, MBL speakers and 6011 pre-amp
AudioNote phono, preamp

I like several aspect of a lot of them but I liked the VTL setup best.

So now, what to do? I decided to then address my analog setup in sections to try and see how close I cloud get to what I heard...before I upgrade.

I started researching the ToneArm first.

So I could be wrong but to me, a good tonearm helps with easy of setup and tweaking...

I notice that I had a 60hz hum coming from my setup, so in trying to address this, I did the following.

The 60hz hum, I found usually comes from interference from say a amplifier, this was affecting my dark background that I outlined earlier... So I learned that a good tonearm provides a way to better ground the table, cartridge etc. So I decided to replace my cable going to my tonearm as that was the only improvement I could make... I upgraded to the WireWorld Silver 7 phono cable.

I the hum went away and my background was darker!!! I was able to get better staging and improved detail because of it.

I also purchased a isolation table for my turntable and that too made an improvement to my staging.

I also purchased a tuning gauge for my cartridge. I started making adjustment to my cartridge, adjusting the needle weight. Doing this, I got a better sound, no more pop's and hiss.

I rolled the tubes in my VAC, I purchased the Apex 7308.

I changed my MC setting to 100 on my VAC for my cartridge. I didn't know much about this so I read forums and learned from others that had my cartridge.

After making all those changes, my system changed in a big way.

I now have dead quiet background noise, detail and imaging with 2D sound stage.

I then made some changes to my room and I purchased some GIK acoustic room treatment and I now have 3D sound staging

So in conclusion, this is what I learned:

A good turntable provides a good foundation to eliminate vibration, tonearms provide a better way to address for grounding and setup "cartridge, adjustments".

I'm still trying to understand platters... Hope this helps!
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,434
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London
You probably liked the VTL set up because of the speakers. From what you auditioned it looks like you were unable to isolate the components. The VTL phono is quite poor imo to the aesthetix phono. Have compared VTL to 6.5 phono to an Italian SS phono with the zyx R1000 cart. You probably like me prefer the planar sound so liked the Maggie set up the best, which also had the VTL
 

CDub

Well-Known Member
Jan 23, 2018
30
13
113
Thanks for the reply bonzo75... you are right. It's so hard to do a comparison these days as components and the synergy between them makes a big difference. You are right, in the end it was the sound that I like, which I used for my assessment rather then the components. Once I found the sound, it was really about trying to reproduce that in my listening room. :)

All of it is so subjective that in the end, we have to make it about what we are trying to achieve... what sounds good to you. ;)
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
181
458
La Jolla, Calif USA
CDub, don't discount the sound of LP12 in the system that you liked the best. Even though the poor little fruit box is out of fashion these days, I happen to believe that it is still one of the best TT's available. Since the source is the most important aspect of your ultimate SQ ( IMHO), I would suggest exploring the various itinerations of the LP12 is the way to go....depending on budget.
 

CDub

Well-Known Member
Jan 23, 2018
30
13
113
Thanks for pointing that out DaveyF. I just learned in my digital setup how important the source is. :)
 

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