Is there a Michael Fremer of CD transports? If no, DEAR GOD PLEASE SEND US ONE!!!!

Hifi Boy · Jan 22, 2018

Sounds like you have a pretty good analog setup.

Also, in the end it will come down to tastes. This is why I would like to mention that I've actually recently sold my system which I was building up for about a year and bought a Hugo 2. And yes I will say that, overall it's on par with what I had before. Not as warm, but much more real sounding.

As far as I'm concerned, digital does it well enough for me and it has enough other positive features which push it beyond vinyl in overall enjoyment. True, if you've been a life long vinyl listener then it will be harder to come to that conclusion. But as far as CDs vs streaming goes, this is something I don't even feel needs to be discussed.

Hifi Boy · Jan 22, 2018

Empirical Audio said:
I take issue with statements like this. All tube amps do not add "warmth". This depends entirely on the amp and the tubes. My SET amp is every bit as live and dynamic as my SS amps were, but more 3 dimensional. Deeper imaging, better bass. Many tube amps are poorly designed or have the wrong tubes in them, so they do sound warm. Likewise, many SS amps sound very cold and electronic. Neither has to be the case based on those technologies.

On the other had, I agree with you that the very best in Digital not only rivals Analog vinyl, it beats it. I have customers that sold their vinyl systems after they got my DAC.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Yes, that goes without saying. It doesn't have to be warm, but that is one way of getting warmth if you want it. This is my primary way of doing it. Honestly, I will unequivocally state that I do not enjoy SS amps as much as tube amps. And it all has to do with that sweet warmth you get from tubes.

Hifi Boy · Jan 22, 2018

Pb Blimp said:
Hey buddy, thems fighten words......

He he, well I believe I explained myself quite well. I'm not opposed to vinyl in principle, I just think that overall enjoyment is higher with a proper digital setup. Less hustle and all that, contributes to immersiveness into the musical experience during the listening sessions.

Pb Blimp · Jan 22, 2018

Hifi Boy said:
He he, well I believe I explained myself quite well. I'm not opposed to vinyl in principle, I just think that overall enjoyment is higher with a proper digital setup. Less hustle and all that, contributes to immersiveness into the musical experience during the listening sessions.

All in fun...your positions were indeed well reasoned. We are all on a journey to some extent, its part of the fun.

spiritofmusic · Jan 22, 2018

Hi Fi Boy, it’s almost as if choice is hard wired evolutionary into our brains, for me the very act of putting on a disc rather than interacting with an IPad imbues that feeling of immersiveness. Added to the fact so much of my specialist genres of prog and fusion are poorly served by Tidal doesn’t exactly push me in the direction of streaming.

Hifi Boy · Jan 22, 2018

Pb Blimp said:
All in fun...your positions were indeed well reasoned. We are all on a journey to some extent, its part of the fun.

Sure thing, but I will say that at let in the looks department, a vinyl rig always beats digital.

This is my favorite example. Goldnote Mediterraneo, a stunning beauty!

spiritofmusic · Jan 22, 2018

Oh, surely not. I sooo prefer an Oppo over any tt LOL.

Uk Paul · Jan 22, 2018

In terms of Compact Disc Transport Vs computer generated files, some of us (ME) do not have any desire to involve computers with all of their 'issues' with their passion for music, the two simply oppose in my view, plus considering that so much of daily life is run by computers these days, I will do my very best to avoid letting my music get swallowed up in it all. This does not neccessarily mean one is better sounding than the other, it is simply a lifestyle choice here.

Saying that, I have yet to hear a non physical media source that has sown a seed in my mind that this could work, even on a secondary level. CD transport, outputing 16 bit data, or even 14 bit for that matter, can sound very very enjoyable, but accurate? who knows? No manufacturer has ever published square wave (eye pattern) data for their machines, which is all they need to do. See here: http://lampizator.eu/digilampizator/CD Transport Digi-Lampizator.html

The other thing is that digital sources are very (mains) power supply dependent, getting this right is more important than exotic hardware choice in many cases.

Vinyl wins on charm by a country mile too..

Hifi Boy · Jan 22, 2018

spiritofmusic said:
Hi Fi Boy, it’s almost as if choice is hard wired evolutionary into our brains, for me the very act of putting on a disc rather than interacting with an IPad imbues that feeling of immersiveness. Added to the fact so much of my specialist genres of prog and fusion are poorly served by Tidal doesn’t exactly push me in the direction of streaming.

Yes, as I said, I certainly get the initial ritual of putting the disc or vinyl on to start the listening session. But once I'm engaged, there ain't no way I'm going to be bothered getting up and swapping the discs!

As far as Tidal's collection goes, yes, let's for now just call it incomplete. But then again, what isn't incomplete? Trust me, I'm still holding on to my CD rips because they are just not available on Tidal. But my point was more directed toward the technology itself.

The idea that you don't have to either order CDs online or download hirez music, but rather just find it and play it instantly, is the convenience level I'm looking for. And also, just the sheer amount of what's on offer is amazing.

Now, that was the content part of my argument. As for the context I mentioned earlier, this is where Roon comes in. It collects information about your albums, artists and tracks online and presents it to you in a visually appealing way. Which is what was missing from all other music players since we switched to digital media from CD's, since they came with nice visual art, just as it was mentioned by a poster a while ago. So Roon creates this appealing visual context for you to immerse yourself in while listening to your music.

Also, the ability to customize your playback and play it from either your pc, phone or tablet is the way of the future in my opinion. It's just that the sheer conceive of it outweighs any negatives it might have compared to more lifelike feel we get when handling physical media.

Hifi Boy · Jan 22, 2018

Paul, yes. The fact that computers have so many issues is the reason I decided to get a proper network player. They have one job and are much more stable than PCs. In the end, both are computers but, one is a general purpose, one while the other has been highly optimized for stable music playback.

As you mentioned, power pays an important tilde and I'm vey well aware of that. That is why I didn't sell my PS Audio P5 power regenerator. It's still here with me, waiting for me to rebuild my system.

asiufy · Jan 22, 2018

Pb Blimp said:
All in fun...your positions were indeed well reasoned. We are all on a journey to some extent, its part of the fun.

See, your post made me realize something. This hobby isn't about reason. Music (and audio) is about passion. So reason rarely comes into play. That's why it's hard to convince someone to drop a new medium, while they're passionate about other, or to drop their passion in favor of something else that, granted, might be more practical or even sound better.

In the end, emotions win.

Uk Paul · Jan 22, 2018

Hifi Boy said:
Paul, yes. The fact that computers have so many issues is the reason I decided to get a proper network player. They have one job and are much more stable than PCs. In the end, both are computers but, one is a general purpose, one while the other has been highly optimized for stable music playback.

As you mentioned, power pays an important tilde and I'm vey well aware of that. That is why I didn't sell my PS Audio P5 power regenerator. It's still here with me, waiting for me to rebuild my system.

Try balanced power, you may not keep the P5, I didn't, or the P10..

Hifi Boy · Jan 22, 2018

Uk Paul said:
Try balanced power, you may not keep the P5, I didn't, or the P10..

Woah there! What's balanced power? This intrigues me!

spiritofmusic · Jan 22, 2018

A big answer why I now love my digital. Paul can explain more.

Hifi Boy · Jan 22, 2018

Ok, I found the link and read about it. Sounds quite promising and reasonable since we try to balance other parts of our equipment as well. But what's the price of one of those things?

microstrip · Jan 22, 2018

Hifi Boy said:
Woah there! What's balanced power? This intrigues me!

Balanced power can mean many different things according to implementations, electrical codes and systems. In theory is does not bring anything good to your system, but in some cases some implementations seem to bring real improvements in sound quality.

spiritofmusic · Jan 23, 2018

Yes Francisco, YMMV, as with everything in audio
All I can say is that I’ve run two balanced transformers in two rooms, and all situations have been massively impvd over “stock” power or audiophile conditioner.
For me, all gain, esp on the digital side.

Blue58 · Jan 23, 2018

Hifi Boy said:
Ok, I found the link and read about it. Sounds quite promising and reasonable since we try to balance other parts of our equipment as well. But what's the price of one of those things?

Starting at £6500 I believe.
I would question why there are 20 busman fuses inside, 10 on each leg of the uk sockets. Add in 10 fuses for each plug and one for the power cord to the unit.
Of course the final result is what counts.

microstrip · Jan 23, 2018

Hifi Boy said:
Ok, I found the link and read about it. Sounds quite promising and reasonable since we try to balance other parts of our equipment as well. But what's the price of one of those things?

There is little connection between balanced audio signals and balanced power ... I do not know what you read, but most of what we find about balanced power is just marketing ...

Hifi Boy · Jan 23, 2018

microstrip said:
There is little connection between balanced audio signals and balanced power ... I do not know what you read, but most of what we find about balanced power is just marketing ...

Heh, well people here seem to be having good experiences with it. But, with a slight chance of being off topic, I have to ask. Has anyone had any experience with Stromtank?

https://www.paragonsns.com/product/stromtank-s-2500/

It seems to be a giant battery and looks amazing so I was wondering whether anyone tried it. I'd actually want to see a PS Audio vs Symetrica vs Stromtank review or something.

Is there a Michael Fremer of CD transports? If no, DEAR GOD PLEASE SEND US ONE!!!!

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