Gryphon Audio Pendragon

Jones99

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Aug 10, 2017
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GREAT POST!!! I note that the positioning of your speakers certainly 'appears' to be similar to how Gryphon has set up their Pendragons before in various rooms. Fantastic system! Would love to know more about how you came to buy all Goebel cable? What else did you audition/try?

Hi LL21
I came across Goebel when I was living overseas . It was recommended and used in quite a few of the systems I heard and liked on my travels. I used to run all Nordost Valhalla and then looked for a change. Tried various Gryphon cables, Transparent Audio ,Siltech and a few others ...I then tried the Goebel cables and have not had the urge to change since. Been so long since I have compared cables but they were one of the few cables that really surprised and impressed in my Gryphon systems......like everything amplified but with a wonderful smoothness. Now that I have moved back to Australia the options of trying very high end cables are very very limited especially so in Western Australia .... I did try and organize a shootout between Nordost Odin 2 and my existing Goebel cables but the distributor could not supply required cables for my system and I think was a little concerned the outcome my not have been favorable .I will try again though always nice to check if there are any cables better suited to my taste and system. I know you are running a Mephisto amplifier do you have any suggestions or favorites for Gryphon amplification...be great to hear some suggestions.
 

cjfrbw

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Apr 20, 2010
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[QUOTE="Ron Resnick, post: 595619, member: 6496"

Your report, along with Mr. Jones’ satisfaction with them, makes me excited to set up the Pendragons. But it seems like those BG ribbons are extremely delicate, which is disconcerting.[/QUOTE]

I am sure Pendragons have tested and highly selected matched pairs of the BG 75. Mine were a blind shot buy from the internet.

The metal frames are tough and heavy, with the ribbons recessed quite a ways inside. As long as they work, I don't think there is much to worry about. The Epsilon midrange would bounce and move quite a bit. The BG 75 ribbons do not move at all that I can discern even when playing very loud and they appear to be edge clamped up and down inside the metal frame.

As far as power requirements, the Yamaha B2 amp on the Epsilon bass panel has power meters. The loudest I can stand things, it seldom hits a peak hold higher than about 10-15 watts. Even when playing the bass panel full range without a crossover, it does not go past the 15 watt mark at peaks. I believe the Epsilon bass panel is about 88 to 90 db efficient or so.

Most power meters on amps have been shown to read high compared to actual power levels used. They tend to be for entertainment rather than measuring actual power output, but they can give a general idea about what is going on with dynamics.
 
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han_n

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Sep 5, 2019
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Surabaya, Indonesia.
Hi all, yes, I finally decided to jump on this forum, I had been reading the ongoing conversation, and think I may be able to contribute and help with some directions and advice. First of all, I am the owner of the Pendragons which PKN (my son) spoke about some time ago, and have been using them for quite some time now to my full satisfaction. I will elaborate in detail as soon as I have the time, but can already confirm to Jones 99 that your set up is quite close to mine, so indeed I believe we have come to the same conclusion. I am using the Pendragons in a new room, after I have moved house a year ago. different room, different sound, I had them tuned close to perfection in the first room, so I know what they are capable off, however in the new room it takes me much longer to achieve the results I'm looking for. Nevertheless, I'm getting there, and in a way, I like the process of tuning the room. As my son has mentioned earlier, initial set up has been done exactly the way you did that, using the similar equipment. It really helps, and is very important indeed. These speakers are not that light, so you don't want to endlessly move around to find the last few mm. Mine are standing on a concrete floor, (concrete covered with ceramic tiles) so moving goes actually quite easy, due to the hardness of the feet underneath the speakers. I'll come back later, and attach some pictures.
Till then, Cheers, and enjoy the music.
 
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cjfrbw

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I gather these ribbons must have some break in. I have been adjusting the gain input down from session to session quite a bit. They were supposed to be NOS stock with no usage.

I wonder if the raw, crossover-less ribbons aren't a bit more efficient than reported, perhaps in the 90 to 93 db range or so once they are run in because they have gotten louder and louder with the same input. I have turned them down quite a bit since first listening to them.

I am going to try a 5 watt 300b amplifier on them next week rather than the Wavac just for sheiss and giggles. If they are indeed in the low 90-95 db range a 300b might power them (although not necessarily well). Guess I'll find out.
 
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han_n

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206f15c0-8418-432b-b578-9e92b1a05dd1.jpg
swiveling chair, so when I do have guests they would not have to see my neck only ;)
 

han_n

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Sep 5, 2019
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Room length: about 9,5 mtr
Room width: about 7,5 mtr
Ceiling height: 3 mtr.
concrete floor, covered partially with thick carpet. Note that the carpet starts in front of the speakers, the 2 mtr behind the speakers is ceramic tile.
Ceiling: partially concrete, partially acoustic tiles.
Most of the walls are false walls, as this is a room within the main room, which is roughly 160M2. Problem is that the false walls are not sturdy enough to contain the lowest bass frequencies, still working on that. (You can see the steel angle profiles screwed to the plywood (38mm) to stiffen these walls, however I'm not satisfied yet. I may remove the thick (3 inc) carpet and change with thin carpet to see what happens. On the other hand, mid/high to my ears is the best I've ever had, also compared to my beloved Apogee Grands, although I realize that they had to do with electronics of that time. Would be interesting to hear how they could possibly perform with current amplification. The CH Precision is also the best I've ever had and/or heard, and I did hear a few. Of course, I have not heard everything, so I can't say it's the best, but for sure it's the best I have ever owned/heard.
 

cjfrbw

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Maybe somebody has already explained it, but is there a reason the woofer towers are not placed close to the mid tower i.e. the gap between the towers?

I like the 'foot shot' with the hole in the sock. Slumming it a bit after all the perfection of setting up the room and speakers.
 
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bonzo75

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Room length: about 9,5 mtr
Room width: about 7,5 mtr
Ceiling height: 3 mtr.
concrete floor, covered partially with thick carpet. Note that the carpet starts in front of the speakers, the 2 mtr behind the speakers is ceramic tile.
Ceiling: partially concrete, partially acoustic tiles.
Most of the walls are false walls, as this is a room within the main room, which is roughly 160M2. Problem is that the false walls are not sturdy enough to contain the lowest bass frequencies, still working on that. (You can see the steel angle profiles screwed to the plywood (38mm) to stiffen these walls, however I'm not satisfied yet. I may remove the thick (3 inc) carpet and change with thin carpet to see what happens. On the other hand, mid/high to my ears is the best I've ever had, also compared to my beloved Apogee Grands, although I realize that they had to do with electronics of that time. Would be interesting to hear how they could possibly perform with current amplification. The CH Precision is also the best I've ever had and/or heard, and I did hear a few. Of course, I have not heard everything, so I can't say it's the best, but for sure it's the best I have ever owned/heard.

Your apogee grands have been wonderfully restored over the years and at Henk's. Thanks very much for people like me and others for having a chance to hear those magnificent beasts.
 

Tango

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Room length: about 9,5 mtr
Room width: about 7,5 mtr
Ceiling height: 3 mtr.
concrete floor, covered partially with thick carpet. Note that the carpet starts in front of the speakers, the 2 mtr behind the speakers is ceramic tile.
Ceiling: partially concrete, partially acoustic tiles.
Most of the walls are false walls, as this is a room within the main room, which is roughly 160M2. Problem is that the false walls are not sturdy enough to contain the lowest bass frequencies, still working on that. (You can see the steel angle profiles screwed to the plywood (38mm) to stiffen these walls, however I'm not satisfied yet. I may remove the thick (3 inc) carpet and change with thin carpet to see what happens. On the other hand, mid/high to my ears is the best I've ever had, also compared to my beloved Apogee Grands, although I realize that they had to do with electronics of that time. Would be interesting to hear how they could possibly perform with current amplification. The CH Precision is also the best I've ever had and/or heard, and I did hear a few. Of course, I have not heard everything, so I can't say it's the best, but for sure it's the best I have ever owned/heard.
Sir. I trust that your CH is the best sounding CH. Better than Gian's in my belief. Because yours comes equipped with...

7FB9F25F-39DE-4908-987D-363770817ACE.jpeg

May "Balance" always be with you.

Tang
 

han_n

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Sep 5, 2019
66
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120
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Surabaya, Indonesia.
@ cjfrbw
"I like the 'foot shot' with the hole in the sock. Slumming it a bit after all the perfection of setting up the room and speakers".

That's a true reflection of who I am indeed. Certain details I pay attention to, other's not so much. I like to walk around in US $ 1,- shorts, and even cheaper T-shirt when at home ;)

The reason the woofer towers are not any closer to the mid/high panel is because the woofer tower foot outriggers won't allow for any closer positioning. You can't see the front footers as they are embedded in the carpet, but you can zoom in on the woofer tower rear footers and see what I mean.
 
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han_n

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2019
66
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120
67
Surabaya, Indonesia.
Your apogee grands have been wonderfully restored over the years and at Henk's. Thanks very much for people like me and others for having a chance to hear those magnificent beasts.

Yes, I have seen pictures of them, they look better than new, and likely sound even better as well. You need to be a specialist though to get them working and to keep them working, (electronics) as the age is approaching 25 years now. I could not do that. Henk seems to be very capable of doing that, so all I can say that in such case it remains an amazing speaker. In fact, my choice for the Gryphon Pendragon speaker system was somewhat influenced by the experience I had gained from the Apogee Grands.
 
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Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Hi all, yes, I finally decided to jump on this forum, I had been reading the ongoing conversation, and think I may be able to contribute and help with some directions and advice. First of all, I am the owner of the Pendragons which PKN (my son) spoke about some time ago, and have been using them for quite some time now to my full satisfaction. I will elaborate in detail as soon as I have the time, but can already confirm to Jones 99 that your set up is quite close to mine, so indeed I believe we have come to the same conclusion. I am using the Pendragons in a new room, after I have moved house a year ago. different room, different sound, I had them tuned close to perfection in the first room, so I know what they are capable off, however in the new room it takes me much longer to achieve the results I'm looking for. Nevertheless, I'm getting there, and in a way, I like the process of tuning the room. As my son has mentioned earlier, initial set up has been done exactly the way you did that, using the similar equipment. It really helps, and is very important indeed. These speakers are not that light, so you don't want to endlessly move around to find the last few mm. Mine are standing on a concrete floor, (concrete covered with ceramic tiles) so moving goes actually quite easy, due to the hardness of the feet underneath the speakers. I'll come back later, and attach some pictures.
Till then, Cheers, and enjoy the music.

Thank you so much for joining us on the forum, and for posting!

It is interesting that you and Grant drive, and that Dato’ Danon Han drove, the Pendragons with solid-state amplifiers. Do you know if anybody is using tube amplifiers on them other than me?

The dimensions of your room are fantastic! How far back from the front wall is your listening chair?

PS: Copying an element of MikeL’s listening room, I made the front third of the floor area wood planks (over concrete slab) to make it easier to move around the speaker towers and the amplifiers.
 
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han_n

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2019
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Surabaya, Indonesia.
Thank you so much for joining us on the forum, and for posting!

It is interesting that you and Grant drive, and that Dato’ Danon Han drove, the Pendragons with solid-state amplifiers. Do you know if anybody is using tube amplifiers on them other than me?

The dimensions of your room are fantastic! How far back from the front wall is your listening chair?

PS: Copying an element of MikeL’s listening room, I made the front third of the floor area wood planks (over concrete slab) to make it easier to move around the speaker towers and the amplifiers.

Ron, the Gryphon's like power, in fact, in my room to reach close to "life" performance levels for certain music, the peak power indicators on the CH Precision M1.1 regularly move between 1.0 and 1.5 Kw per channel. Of course, the lack of distortion even at higher levels allow for higher sound pressure without hurting the ears, but in general I don't go over 100 Dba at the listening position.

I believe there is some 5mtr between the listening position and the back wall. Will post some more pictures when I go home.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Thank you for your reply!

Where do you set your “Q” control? What effect on the sound have you experienced the “Q” control to have?
 

han_n

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2019
66
144
120
67
Surabaya, Indonesia.
Sir. I trust that your CH is the best sounding CH. Better than Gian's in my belief. Because yours comes equipped with...

View attachment 56723
May "Balance" always be with you.

Tang

Indeed, for me, being in this room, listening to certain music, the level of performance draws you in...you will become part of it, everything disappears, enter a different world, forget for a while the real world...a kind of magic seems to take place...it's almost like meditating. I mainly experience that when listening at this level of reproduction. It's kind of divine...so it all fits in....
 

han_n

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2019
66
144
120
67
Surabaya, Indonesia.
Thank you for your reply!

Where do you set your “Q” control? What effect on the sound have you experienced the “Q” control to have?

I will check at which level it is at present when I'm at home. I've been playing with it a bit, but in new my room it doesn't have a profound effect. I had a much clearer effect in my previous room.
 

cjfrbw

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
3,323
1,313
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Pleasanton, CA
From what I have seen of the Pendragon, the ribbon and the tweeter have a passive crossover in a box for low cut and high pass to those elements. The passive crossover does not communicate with the woofer tower and it's amplifier.

The woofer tower must have it's own active electronic (vs. passive) crossover element, since it takes a separate signal. Q usually refers to the acuteness of the slope of the rolloff point, so it is probably for blending du jour, which can be done with an active crossover.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
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Beverly Hills, CA
From what I have seen of the Pendragon, the ribbon and the tweeter have a passive crossover in a box for low cut and high pass to those elements. The passive crossover does not communicate with the woofer tower and it's amplifier.

The woofer tower must have it's own active electronic (vs. passive) crossover element, since it takes a separate signal. Q usually refers to the acuteness of the slope of the rolloff point, so it is probably for blending du jour, which can be done with an active crossover.

From separate outputs on the line stage preamplifier or from a throughput coming out of the woofer tower the full range signal goes to an external, passive, high-pass filter at the base of the ribbon tower. The ribbon driver rolls off naturally.

You are correct that the passive crossover does not communicate with the woofer tower and its amplifier.
 

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