Suggestions: SOTA Ethernet Server for a DAC Renderer

Pb Blimp

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Oct 30, 2017
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AFAIK, this is not Marcin's thread.

I stopped reading the linked-to page as soon as I saw the limited range of the writer's considerations. Ignore my comments, if you choose.

Nope its mine. If you read it you will find I was greatly enjoying the discussion with Marcin. No big deal. Just sayin.
 

Kal Rubinson

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Kal,

Posts #130 and #131 were an answer to a direct request for a CAT product (#129) and Marcin signature identifies his connection to CAT.

As posts changed page between #130 and #131 you probably missed the connection.
That doesn't change my opinion of the piece but it does make my comment about it inappropriate. I accept that since I have not followed this thread assiduously. (in fact, I rarely follow most threads.)
 

Marcin_gps

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Guys, here's an interesting experiment and I wonder if you can hear the difference from the YouTube video and what is your opinion in general about sound quality from lossless streaming services vs. locally stored files?

CD rip (FLAC 16/44) played from a local SSD vs. TIDAL HI-FI (FLAC 16/44). Via onboard LAN and via JCAT NET card.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIX-EQn3BYg
 

paul79

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Nov 2, 2014
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My computer sound system is way too basic to form an opinion of the above experiment, but I can say that now that I have added an A/C grounded (- of DC) linear supply to my Modem, Tidal HiFi sounds about as good as my file playback from the NAS. I am able to compare quickly and easily. I was very surprised at this result.
 
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Marcin_gps

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Jun 24, 2015
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My computer sound system is way too basic to form an opinion of the above experiment, but I can say that now that I have added an A/C grounded linear supply to my Modem, Tidal HiFi sounds about as good as my file playback from the NAS. I am able to compare quickly and easily. I was very surprised at this result.

I don't know if Terry's modem/router is grounded, I will find out. Not sure if this is relevant for local playback. There is a new A/B video which demonstrates the difference in the sound of locally stored files on SSD with music server connected to router via onboard LAN & via JCAT NET card:
 

Empirical Audio

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Oct 12, 2017
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Guys, here's an interesting experiment and I wonder if you can hear the difference from the YouTube video and what is your opinion in general about sound quality from lossless streaming services vs. locally stored files?

CD rip (FLAC 16/44) played from a local SSD vs. TIDAL HI-FI (FLAC 16/44). Via onboard LAN and via JCAT NET card.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIX-EQn3BYg

I used to avoid streaming systems because the SQ was not as good as local files, and particularly because it is usually encoded FLAC.

However, recently I made changes to both my Ethernet renderer and my XMOS USB interface that lowered the jitter to ~10psec, based on direct measurements with my 7GHz B/W programmable measurement system. After these changes, just for grins I decided to try Amazon Prime streaming service because for most tracks, it's essentially free or included in my subscription for video streaming.

I was actually shocked at how good this streaming sounds, even though it is probably lossy MP3. I have not done direct comparison to the same unencoded .wav file played locally yet, but I intend to.

Anyone know what encoding is used for Amazon Prime music?? I could not find this info.

Thanks,
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Empirical Audio

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I don't know if Terry's modem/router is grounded, I will find out. Not sure if this is relevant for local playback.

Well I'm sure it is. It's not just grounded either. The earth ground is connected to the DC common. It's a key ingredient for optimum LAN playback. I've done a LOT of experimenting with this.

Other ingredients that are critical are:

1) good quality CAT8 cable, like the WW Platinum
2) good quality Ethernet isolator
3) fast-acting LPS for the router or switch or WIFI adapter

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Marcin_gps

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Jun 24, 2015
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Well I'm sure it is. It's not just grounded either. The earth ground is connected to the DC common. It's a key ingredient for optimum LAN playback. I've done a LOT of experimenting with this.

Other ingredients that are critical are:

1) good quality CAT8 cable, like the WW Platinum
2) good quality Ethernet isolator
3) fast-acting LPS for the router or switch or WIFI adapter

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

It's just that the files are storred directly on the music server. Network is used only for controlling playback via a remote app. Router is 15m away on a different floor. It's fascinating that in this scenario there is a night & day difference in sound quality depending on which network adapter is used.
 
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Empirical Audio

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It's just that the files are storred directly on the music server. Network is used only for controlling playback via a remote app. Router is 15m away on a different floor. It's fascinating that in this scenario there is a night & day difference in sound quality depending on which network adapter is used.

If you recall, most designers expected that when USB interfaces became async that the USB cable and computer would not matter anymore. We know how that turned-out. I have theories as to why this occurs with USB.

For Ethernet, there is leakage across the transformers. This is why the isolators and earth-grounded DC common helps.

Also, improving the risetimes of the Ethernet signals improves things - this one makes no sense at all.

BTW, when I connect the same modded router, fast LPS for the router, fast silver cables and the isolator to my Sonos Connect, it also sounds stellar.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

ferrox

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Jun 16, 2016
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John Swenson over at Computeraudiophile.com also recommends grounding the energizing supply for linear power supplies and network switches. He's actually measured differences.

I do want to know how to do this because I have several LPS from Sbooster to Hoer wege which I leave them as it is. Any picture to show me how to do that? I am very interested to know. Thanks!
 

Empirical Audio

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Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
1,169
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Great Pacific Northwest
www.empiricalaudio.com
I do want to know how to do this because I have several LPS from Sbooster to Hoer wege which I leave them as it is. Any picture to show me how to do that? I am very interested to know. Thanks!

The easiest way to add earth ground to a typical ungrounded DC connector from a wall-wart or LPS is to:

1) get a dc connector "Y" cable with a male input and two female output connectors on short cables
2) clamp a power distribution block to one of the hanging female DC connectors - connects to negative - similar to this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Power-Splitter-Cable-Cord-Adapter-1-Female-to-2-Male-CCTV-Security-Camera-DVR/141609260517?epid=1460784488&hash=item20f891d5e5:g:Ku8AAOSws29bra-V
3) clamp a wire to the same power distribution block:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gold-Plated-Power-Ground-Distribution-Bar-Block-1-Input-To-4-Ga-4-output-to-8Ga/252539928106?hash=item3acc8d7e2a:g:u1kAAOSwTM5YtzjX
4) put a banana plug on the other end of the wire
5) plug the banana plug into the ground hole of the AC outlet

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

sbo6

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May 18, 2014
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The easiest way to add earth ground to a typical ungrounded DC connector from a wall-wart or LPS is to:

1) get a dc connector "Y" cable with a male input and two female output connectors on short cables
2) clamp a power distribution block to one of the hanging female DC connectors - connects to negative - similar to this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Power-Splitter-Cable-Cord-Adapter-1-Female-to-2-Male-CCTV-Security-Camera-DVR/141609260517?epid=1460784488&hash=item20f891d5e5:g:Ku8AAOSws29bra-V
3) clamp a wire to the same power distribution block:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gold-Plated-Power-Ground-Distribution-Bar-Block-1-Input-To-4-Ga-4-output-to-8Ga/252539928106?hash=item3acc8d7e2a:g:u1kAAOSwTM5YtzjX
4) put a banana plug on the other end of the wire
5) plug the banana plug into the ground hole of the AC outlet

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Steve, wouldn't it be easier and a better simpler ground to bypass the ground block and just connect the female out negative to a banana connector and insert in the ground of an outlet?
 

Empirical Audio

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Steve, wouldn't it be easier and a better simpler ground to bypass the ground block and just connect the female out negative to a banana connector and insert in the ground of an outlet?

Sure, if you can connect to the barrel of the DC connector somehow....

My technique is the easiest way to add a ground to an ungrounded cable.

Steve N.
 

sbo6

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May 18, 2014
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Well, if you can, "put a banana plug on the other end of the wire" = soldering or crimping it's the same step for connecting to a barrel. Plus, you omit the grounding block..
 

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