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Thread: Suggestions: SOTA Ethernet Server for a DAC Renderer

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empirical Audio View Post
    I was talking about S/PDIF. If USB is used as an endpoint, then the jitter of the Master Clock in the USB interface matters. It would be the Master Clock, but may also be affected by jitter and CM noise on the USB cable.

    Steve N.
    Empirical Audio
    Ya that confused me. Not sure why as we were talking about async per micro's question.
    Paul

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  2. #62
    Regarding Ethernet controller/clock and if it makes a difference. The editor of Alpha Audio magazine has just installed the NET Card FEMTO in his music server and his observations are that streaming now sounds better than files on the internal SSD (source)
    JPLAY & JCAT Founder

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcin_gps View Post
    Regarding Ethernet controller/clock and if it makes a difference. The editor of Alpha Audio magazine has just installed the NET Card FEMTO in his music server and his observations are that streaming now sounds better than files on the internal SSD (source)
    I can easily accept it - however better sound quality is not a technical explanation. Probably I will also buy a NET Card FEMTO to try in my Roon PC server, but not because of the clock, just because probably it is a much better designed card and it leaks less noise in the audio system.

    As it has two RJ45 I would like to bypass the router and connect the DCS upsampler and the Synology NAS to the W10 PC. Do you think it is a good strategy?
    DCS Vivaldi 2.0 stack, Soundlab A1 Px's while waiting for the XLF successor, EMT927, SME3012R, ARC Phono 3, Lamm ML1.2 Ref, Lamm L2ref, Stealth Dream speaker , Crystal Dreamline ICs, TA XL digital, TA XL gen V power cables, CenterStage footers and Nordost Qkore8's!

  4. #64
    Regarding the Mojo Deja Vu Linux/Roon server:

    I was ready to get it but I keep coming back to these questions
    It tough to get straight answers from Mojo, Benjamin really likes to hear himself talk:

    Is 64gb large enough to handle future Roon improvements? Do u have 128gb SSD? (I'd feel better with 128gb ssd)
    How much ram? If only 4gb, can u get 8 or 16?
    What processor? Speed?

    I get the distinct impression that the Mojo is set up to use internal SSD drives for music storage and not to access a NAS with a large library

    Not convinced this is the way to go.....

  5. #65
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    Very good questions. I have had some discussion with Benjamin and can try to articulate my perception of him and his philosophy. I have not made my final decision on a server and I am not prepared to categorically defend his product but I do see a lot of logic in his approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingsrule View Post
    I was ready to get it but I keep coming back to these questions
    It tough to get straight answers from Mojo, Benjamin really likes to hear himself talk:
    Benjamin is a very passionate guy. I find politely interrupting him (if there is such a thing) in a way I would not with most people does not offend him and allows you to get what you want from him. I am somewhat persuaded that the "thing" that makes him so passionate in his dialogue is the same "thing" that drives him to absolute perfection in the optimization of his devices. Only the absolute best components and design will do for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingsrule View Post
    Is 64gb large enough to handle future Roon improvements? Do u have 128gb SSD? (I'd feel better with 128gb ssd)
    How much ram? If only 4gb, can u get 8 or 16?
    What processor? Speed?
    I agree with this concern if it is your intention to use Roon for DSP. You are going to need more of everything in this case starting with an i3 processor minimum and more cache, ram etc. The Mojo is optimized for "bit perfect" playback (NOT DSP) with Roon only managing the library and HQplayer serving/playing only "bit perfect" (i.e., no upsampling). There are kind of two camps in this regard. If you are in the "bit perfect camp" you DO NOT want all this additional topology in your server as it is deemed to compromise sound quality through noise, etc. He uses a low-noise ultrahigh-efficiency 6 watt main board. That is off the charts low and is the polar opposite of a DSP approach. The Mojo is all about "bit perfect" sound quality exclusively. Benjamin wants the best of everything and in his opinion it's like this:

    --Bit Perfect > Upsampled (This is obviously dac dependent. It's true on the Mojo Dac as well as my MSB.)
    --Roon is best at Music Interface.
    --HQ > Roon as a server/player for sound quality.

    As such he has designed a server that is optimized for absolute best sound quality predicated on these beliefs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingsrule View Post
    I get the distinct impression that the Mojo is set up to use internal SSD drives for music storage and not to access a NAS with a large library.
    You are correct here as well. In Benjamin's opinion per his testing, when you have an ultra quiet, low jitter device like the Deja Vue, local SSD is better than a NAS source feeding the server through an ethernet connection. Somehow the ethernet pollution is worse than the local SSD's as a file source. Remember also, his SSDs are isolated in a ferrous shielded compartment, mounted on Sorbothane standoffs, and are powered independently from the main board for optimal performance. (He does feel the Samsung Pro's SSDs are necessary over the EVO's.) I discussed this at length and he is adamant in this regard for his device based on his listening tests and comments from his customers.
    Last edited by Pb Blimp; 01-13-2018 at 09:02 AM.
    Paul

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  6. #66
    So what is the best Roon server to use with 7Tb of music on a QNAP 8 bay NAS?

    The SGC i7 sonic Transporter is lookink like the one...

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingsrule View Post
    So what is the best Roon server to use with 7Tb of music on a QNAP 8 bay NAS?

    The SGC i7 sonic Transporter is lookink like the one...
    Well I am not the expert but if you wanna use roon to full extent of its capabilities, you need a pretty powerful processing capability as you mentioned. The next question is are you going ethernet or USB to the Dac. If USB, Andrews device is a good option at a price point with the SGM at the other extreme. If ethernet, I would still prefer something with ethernet port optimization and isolation. Unfortunately I am not aware of something that has the processing you need for full roon dsp that is also optimized for ethernet to the degree of the four units in my OP. I do think this is something that the market needs to address as processing demands increase along with ethernet to I2S direct being developed as a superior interface to USB. Last time I talked to Andrew (a few months ago) he had bridged ethernet ports but nothing too special. He didn't seem to think much else was necessary. Maybe see if Andrew could put in a JCAT Femto Ethernet card in the Sonic and do something custom with a linear power supply feeding the card independently??? IMO if you did this you would have a very wiz-bang, full roon DSP solution. It would be good for Marcin to comment here.......
    Paul

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  8. #68
    Agree here..I'm using ethernet to dac

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by microstrip View Post
    I can easily accept it - however better sound quality is not a technical explanation. Probably I will also buy a NET Card FEMTO to try in my Roon PC server, but not because of the clock, just because probably it is a much better designed card and it leaks less noise in the audio system.

    As it has two RJ45 I would like to bypass the router and connect the DCS upsampler and the Synology NAS to the W10 PC. Do you think it is a good strategy?
    Correct, it's a low-noise design, but the clock is also important. We've all been shocked with the improvement on the JCAT USB Card FEMTO compared to a previous revision which used a less precise clock.

    Yes, this is a good strategy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingsrule View Post
    Regarding the Mojo Deja Vu Linux/Roon server:

    I was ready to get it but I keep coming back to these questions
    It tough to get straight answers from Mojo, Benjamin really likes to hear himself talk:

    Is 64gb large enough to handle future Roon improvements? Do u have 128gb SSD? (I'd feel better with 128gb ssd)
    How much ram? If only 4gb, can u get 8 or 16?
    What processor? Speed?

    I get the distinct impression that the Mojo is set up to use internal SSD drives for music storage and not to access a NAS with a large library

    Not convinced this is the way to go.....
    The Mojo Server as someone already mentioned here is not for intensive DSP. It is a product optimized for bit-perfect playback. Using more RAM and higher spec CPU would only add noise which Ben is trying to avoid.
    Using 64GB or 128GB SSD is a sign that external library is mandatory, so it is has to access a NAS.


    Best regards,
    Marcin
    JPLAY & JCAT Founder

  10. #70
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    I did not include the Antipodes on the list in my OP because historically I considered it to be optimized around Usb and Spdif, but I see the new DX Gen 3 has a second ethernet port. In the servers in my OP the second ethernet ports were designed to isolate the network and to connect direct to a dac's ethernet renderer which is my goal. From the limited information on their web site, the second ethernet port on the Antipodes DX 3 looks like it is meant to receive input from the high powered Antipodes Core as opposed to isolate the network and connect to an ethernet dac. Does anyone have any perspective on this port design and/or performance of the DX Gen 3 being connected direct to a dac via ethernet.

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    Last edited by Pb Blimp; 01-27-2018 at 06:28 AM.
    Paul

    Power - Torus 75 amp WMT. Furutech NCF Lines, Flux-50s, Outlets, PC's. Star ground.
    Cables - Nordost Valhalla 2 and Odin (phono).
    Analog Source- ARC Ref 10 Phono. Acoustic Sig Ascona MKII, TA-9000 arm, Lyra Atlas.
    Digital Source- MSB Reference DAC, Femto 33.
    Amplification - Soulution 721 Pre and 501 Monos.
    Speakers - Raidho D3.1
    Room Acoustics - Acoustic Frontiers Design, RPG Plates, Absorption and Diffraction, and Custom Helmholtz Traps.
    Stands - Solid Walnut by Timber Nation.

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