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Thread: Suggestions: SOTA Ethernet Server for a DAC Renderer

  1. #111
    Addicted to Best! Pb Blimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonesup View Post
    I'm talking about directly connecting the server with the DAC with Ethernet port (in my case it can not be otherwise since Lumin does not have a USB port). And although the connection is direct, I assure you that everything you do to reduce the noise in the switch, will result in better sound. Do not forget that even if you directly connect Server and DAC, the Switch is still the DHCP server.
    The Melco guys tell me they filter between the Ethernet "in" and "out" to completely mitigate what you are describing. I guess your finding says a lot about Melco. I am curious, if you disconnect the ethernet "in" on the Melco so the Melco is completely separate from the network (and use the front panel for controlling the Melco), do you experience the same improvement?

    From Melco:


    Unlike PC based systems, Melco has a dedicated PLAYER port. This allows connection directly to the network Streamer or Player without any data switch in the signal path which would damage the music data.



    This direct connection concept we call Direct Streaming Music – DSM – and it is unique to Melco as in conjunction with the Ethernet purifier between the LAN and PLAYER ports DSM ensures that the Player receives only clean and accurate data, all packets are timed with low-jitter precision and all unwanted traffic is blocked. LAN lights can be disabled for highest possible data integrity.



    There are two methods of operation – Network Mode is the default and allows a Tablet connected to the Wi-Fi to control the player as normal. But for ultra-pure music playback DIRECT MODE can be selected – in this case there is no need for any external Ethernet or IT components, and the Melco acts as DHCP server to the Player. Browsing and control is then from the player front panel.
    Paul

    Power - Torus 75 amp WMT. Furutech NCF Lines, Flux-50s, Outlets, PC's. Star ground.
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  2. #112
    Senior Member nonesup's Avatar
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    Hi Paul.
    What Melco says regarding the total isolation between the two Ethernet ports goes beyond the truth.
    There is an improvement in the music compared to the single port system: Melco to Switch and switch to Lumin, it is true, but unfortunately the noise isolation is not total.
    If we disconnect the cable at Melco's network input, the music will simply stop, since the switch is the DHCP server. The operation from Melco buttons can only be done if transmitted via USB. Then it is the Server that takes control and sends to the DAC the files that "he wants".
    In the case of a DAC Render, it is this one that "orders" the server what files it has to send to it.
    However, it is true that Melco has a system called "Direct Mode" in which Melco shuts down the input Ethernet port and also becomes the DHCP Server. Unfortunately that can only be used by a DAC Render that has buttons that allow you to choose which files "order" Melco to send you.
    Lumin does not have a single button, the orders go from the Ipad to the Router via Wifi, from this to the Switch, from this to the input Ethernet port of the Melco and since it is off, there the signal "dies" and can not reach the Lumin.
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    Francisco
    Lumin A1 + Kenneth Lau LPSU /Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref 5 SE /Constellation Inspiration 1.0 Stereo / Rockport Atria I / MIT Magnum MA Speakers / Neutral Audio XLR Cables/Göbel and AudioQuest Diamond Ethernet Cables / Shunyata Denali 6000 T / Shunyata Alfa and Sigma Power Cables /Kenneth Lau LPSU for Aqvox Switch and Router / Stillpoints Ultra SS and Mini/ Entreq Poseidon and Silver Tellus, Entreq Olympus and Apollo Infinity Cables

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonesup View Post
    Hi Paul.
    What Melco says regarding the total isolation between the two Ethernet ports goes beyond the truth.
    There is an improvement in the music compared to the single port system: Melco to Switch and switch to Lumin, it is true, but unfortunately the noise isolation is not total.
    If we disconnect the cable at Melco's network input, the music will simply stop, since the switch is the DHCP server. The operation from Melco buttons can only be done if transmitted via USB. Then it is the Server that takes control and sends to the DAC the files that "he wants".
    In the case of a DAC Render, it is this one that "orders" the server what files it has to send to it.
    However, it is true that Melco has a system called "Direct Mode" in which Melco shuts down the input Ethernet port and also becomes the DHCP Server. Unfortunately that can only be used by a DAC Render that has buttons that allow you to choose which files "order" Melco to send you.
    Lumin does not have a single button, the orders go from the Ipad to the Router via Wifi, from this to the Switch, from this to the input Ethernet port of the Melco and since it is off, there the signal "dies" and can not reach the Lumin.
    Ok Fransisco thanks for explaining the Lumin's limitations in this regard.

    I still am extremely surprised by your above bold statement as this feature is one of the Melco's claims to fame and such isolation is a very simple and inexpensive thing to accomplish. I wonder it the outlet you are plugging the Melco into has a slightly higher electrical potential at the ground terminal than the other outlets to which you have the switch grounded. Alternatively it could be the Entreq. Have you tried the Enteq box on the Melco? Something does not make sense. Either it is not grounded fully (i.e., you don't have low enough electrical potential at the ground of the outlet) or Melco is full of beans.
    Last edited by Pb Blimp; 04-19-2018 at 07:19 PM.
    Paul

    Power - Torus 75 amp WMT. Furutech NCF Lines, Flux-50s, Outlets, PC's. Star ground.
    Cables - Nordost Valhalla 2 and Odin (phono).
    Analog Source- ARC Ref 10 Phono. Acoustic Sig Ascona MKII, TA-9000 arm, Lyra Atlas.
    Digital Source- MSB Reference DAC, Femto 33.
    Amplification - Soulution 721 Pre and 501 Monos.
    Speakers - Raidho D3.1
    Room Acoustics - Acoustic Frontiers Design, RPG Plates, Absorption and Diffraction, and Custom Helmholtz Traps.
    Stands - Solid Walnut by Timber Nation.

  4. #114
    Senior Member nonesup's Avatar
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    Hi Paul.
    Regarding the Lumin I do not understand that it is a deficiency, but a design decision. They did not want buttons, nor did Linn and some other manufacturers.
    Regarding the technical part about electrical potentials I leave it for people with greater knowledge. Just tell you that Melco and Switch (like all the other components of my system) are connected to Entreq boxes.
    Regarding my assertion that the use of two Ethernet ports is isolated, but not totally, it is based only on my personal perception, not on technical criteria, so I accept that someone else says otherwise, but I only add two comments to support my statement:
    a.- Initially we were told that since the RJ45 connectors were galvanically isolated, they were able to reject all the noise. Good every time there are more manufacturers that use two ports for that purpose.
    b.- Melco has the "Direct Mode" system that turns off the input Ethernet port. What does that system have if the isolation of the two Ethernet ports is complete?
    Regards
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    Francisco
    Lumin A1 + Kenneth Lau LPSU /Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref 5 SE /Constellation Inspiration 1.0 Stereo / Rockport Atria I / MIT Magnum MA Speakers / Neutral Audio XLR Cables/Göbel and AudioQuest Diamond Ethernet Cables / Shunyata Denali 6000 T / Shunyata Alfa and Sigma Power Cables /Kenneth Lau LPSU for Aqvox Switch and Router / Stillpoints Ultra SS and Mini/ Entreq Poseidon and Silver Tellus, Entreq Olympus and Apollo Infinity Cables

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonesup View Post
    Hi Paul.
    Regarding the Lumin I do not understand that it is a deficiency, but a design decision. They did not want buttons, nor did Linn and some other manufacturers.
    Regarding the technical part about electrical potentials I leave it for people with greater knowledge. Just tell you that Melco and Switch (like all the other components of my system) are connected to Entreq boxes.
    Regarding my assertion that the use of two Ethernet ports is isolated, but not totally, it is based only on my personal perception, not on technical criteria, so I accept that someone else says otherwise, but I only add two comments to support my statement:
    a.- Initially we were told that since the RJ45 connectors were galvanically isolated, they were able to reject all the noise. Good every time there are more manufacturers that use two ports for that purpose.
    b.- Melco has the "Direct Mode" system that turns off the input Ethernet port. What does that system have if the isolation of the two Ethernet ports is complete?
    Regards
    Thanks Fransico. Please understand I did not mean to imply the Lumin's control decision was a deficiency. I meant only to recognize your point about the control.

    Regarding your point (b) above, that is in fact a very good observation. I can't argue with your logic. Good point!
    Paul

    Power - Torus 75 amp WMT. Furutech NCF Lines, Flux-50s, Outlets, PC's. Star ground.
    Cables - Nordost Valhalla 2 and Odin (phono).
    Analog Source- ARC Ref 10 Phono. Acoustic Sig Ascona MKII, TA-9000 arm, Lyra Atlas.
    Digital Source- MSB Reference DAC, Femto 33.
    Amplification - Soulution 721 Pre and 501 Monos.
    Speakers - Raidho D3.1
    Room Acoustics - Acoustic Frontiers Design, RPG Plates, Absorption and Diffraction, and Custom Helmholtz Traps.
    Stands - Solid Walnut by Timber Nation.

  6. #116
    Senior Member nonesup's Avatar
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    No problem.
    Although Google translate is a blessing for those who do not speak English and although it has improved a lot lately, it is true that it still does not dominate the "subtleties" of the languages ​​and that sometimes gives misunderstandings.
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    Francisco
    Lumin A1 + Kenneth Lau LPSU /Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref 5 SE /Constellation Inspiration 1.0 Stereo / Rockport Atria I / MIT Magnum MA Speakers / Neutral Audio XLR Cables/Göbel and AudioQuest Diamond Ethernet Cables / Shunyata Denali 6000 T / Shunyata Alfa and Sigma Power Cables /Kenneth Lau LPSU for Aqvox Switch and Router / Stillpoints Ultra SS and Mini/ Entreq Poseidon and Silver Tellus, Entreq Olympus and Apollo Infinity Cables

  7. #117
    Senior Member nonesup's Avatar
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    I just sent the following, to Peter Lee (Lumin Firmware Leader). We will see if you consider it interesting to implement.

    “Hi Peter.
    I would like to request a utility in the firmware, in case I consider it possible to add it.
    My Melco has a very useful operation possibility, which they call "Direct Mode". In this mode the Melco turns off its Ethernet input port (with which it is totally isolated from the rest of the network), transmits to the Lumin through the Ethernet Player port and also becomes the DHCP server instead of the Switch. Logically with Lumin it can not be used, because the only way to run "play" is from the IPad and the Melco port would be turned off.
    Now it has occurred to me that if we could configure the operation of the Lumin play key in two ways
    a.- As currently, that is, we press play and it is executed without delay
    b.- With a delay of, for example, 45 seconds.
    In this second case, you can choose a playlist, press play and allow time to set the Melco using its keys to "Direct Mode"
    (in that it does not take more than 10 seconds) so that after the 45-second countdown the Lumin would begin to play completely isolated from the network.“
    __________________
    Francisco
    Lumin A1 + Kenneth Lau LPSU /Melco N1ZH60-2 / Audio Research Ref 5 SE /Constellation Inspiration 1.0 Stereo / Rockport Atria I / MIT Magnum MA Speakers / Neutral Audio XLR Cables/Göbel and AudioQuest Diamond Ethernet Cables / Shunyata Denali 6000 T / Shunyata Alfa and Sigma Power Cables /Kenneth Lau LPSU for Aqvox Switch and Router / Stillpoints Ultra SS and Mini/ Entreq Poseidon and Silver Tellus, Entreq Olympus and Apollo Infinity Cables

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