Today a special listening

bonzo75

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What are you considering normal size EU rooms?

Say 18x13 feet average, give or take two get in either direction, not built for audio, so maybe pillars or corners and bass issues with big full rangers.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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Excuse me for butting in again.

I would, Ron. Since I already have the main big system, I want a mini monitor for nearfield listening..no space for midsize speakers. I think Gian falls into my category too since he told me his Montagna is the best he ever heard. No reason he wants a another midsize.

Wait until you get your big Gryphon up standing and singing. You may well think like me. Another pair of midsize speakers would have no place in your home.

Kind regards,
Tang

You’re not going to easily find anything that can match the sound quality of a vintage Celestion SL600 or a vintage Grundig 2500 monitor speaker.

david
 

microstrip

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Say 18x13 feet average, give or take two get in either direction, not built for audio, so maybe pillars or corners and bass issues with big full rangers.

IMHO this is small room, 18x13 is 21 square meters. Some studies I have seen on listening rooms carried in Europe referred to 30 square meters for audiophile rooms. In such rooms I would prefer a 3 way speaker, such as the Sonus Faber Amati Futura or Wilson Sabrina to a 2 way. Some 2 way speakers need large rooms to show their real capabilities - the Mini II and the old Extrema are two of them.
 

bonzo75

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The 2700 euro Heco direkt is superb. Bill replaced his focal maestro utopia in a 24x15 room (challenging room shape) and Cyclopse his raidho D3 in a smaller room. Both much happier. It's not exactly a monitor but a small speaker. It is amazing what small speakers can do by getting the room out of the way and giving a complete sound picture.
 

christoph

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Dec 11, 2015
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[...]Then I got married. Sold all audio gears because my wife didn’t like messy wires in living room :(

Sorry for being OT.

You recovered big time from that state of no hifi gear :rolleyes:

Or was it just the cables that where the issue?
You hide the cables quite nicely behind those Gammas :cool:
 

christoph

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I do not understand. The price is €100,000 for that little 2 way speaker on the stand?

In these times of crazy prices in high end (audio, automobiles, art, anything) you need to stand out by a big margin to be recognized :(
I guess the stands are onother 20k ? :rolleyes:
 

bonzo75

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Sorry for being OT.

You recovered big time from that state of no hifi gear :rolleyes:

Or was it just the cables that where the issue?
You hide the cables quite nicely behind those Gammas :cool:

I think his wife must be a turntable collector
 

gian60

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Apr 17, 2016
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@Ron,
Hi Ron,i guarantee a very good listening,then price is ridiculous.
And there are a lot of good things to have good music at any price.
One time i brought to my friend home my third system i had,Leak tl 12 plus mono with a very special small monovia
My friend had Wilson Alexandria 2 with Krell Evo One
We connected the Leak directly to his CD DCS,and he told me the voice were much better and natural with Leak and Monrovia than his system
 

microstrip

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You’re not going to easily find anything that can match the sound quality of a vintage Celestion SL600 or a vintage Grundig 2500 monitor speaker.

david

I still own what I consider the best mini monitor I have ever listened if we want to have a "reach and touch" holographic soundstage filled with filigree but solid objects - the B&W silver signature SS25. However these speakers are excessively selective of system and recording. But I listened to some tracks of B&W and RR CD recordings sounding phantasmagoricaly present with them, either with Atmasphere OTLs or Krell SS! But a simple change, such as changing an IC or power cable could destroy the feeling of being there. Matching was really critical. People who love Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band should listen to it played through them.

I always preferred them with digital than with vinyl, typically at 7 feet distance.
 

bonzo75

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Yes, the B&W monitors we heard on the last Italian trip, with Gian and his friend Marco, were among the most impressive of set ups, at 7 feet into the room. The soundstage started behind and the wave came in from as if the speakers did not exist. The guy who set them up, Dimitri, is considered by these Italian guys to be the best set up guy in Italy. Marco went back home and tried to move his Alexandria X2s2 to get a similar stage.

And yes, micro, in that room, Marco and Dimitri preferred the metronome streamer to the metronome CD player (not the top one), and in the other room we preferred the kronos Sparta with a 2k cart and the Luxman phono to the top metronome transport plus dac combo :p
 

Tango

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You’re not going to easily find anything that can match the sound quality of a vintage Celestion SL600 or a vintage Grundig 2500 monitor speaker.

david

I will have to ask for your permission to look into your vault sometime :D.

Tang
 

Audiophile Bill

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The 2700 euro Heco direkt is superb. Bill replaced his focal maestro utopia in a 24x15 room (challenging room shape) and Cyclopse his raidho D3 in a smaller room. Both much happier. It's not exactly a monitor but a small speaker. It is amazing what small speakers can do by getting the room out of the way and giving a complete sound picture.

Just for accuracy - the Direkt is *not* a replacement for my Focal Maestro. That is to be determined. I am looking at options right now. They were purchased for my bedroom. They are very enjoyable speakers and do a lot well. They are not that small though (versus a monitor) and require plenty of distance into room to work really well ime. In order to “replace” the Maestro then the Heco Dreiklang would need to be heard in my room. My room needs something more substantial to really lock in and control the room with the levels I like. That said, the Direkt is very good and great value.
 

bonzo75

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Just for accuracy - the Direkt is *not* a replacement for my Focal Maestro. That is to be determined. I am looking at options right now. They were purchased for my bedroom. They are very enjoyable speakers and do a lot well. They are not that small though (versus a monitor) and require plenty of distance into room to work really well ime. In order to “replace” the Maestro then the Heco Dreiklang would need to be heard in my room. My room needs something more substantial to really lock in and control the room with the levels I like. That said, the Direkt is very good and great value.

Sorry...i know you are looking at Dreiklang, but you are wary of big speakers that can overload, correct? Even monitors improve with distance into the room, but can do without better than big full Rangers, as can Heco.
 

Tango

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Sorry for being OT.

You recovered big time from that state of no hifi gear :rolleyes:

Or was it just the cables that where the issue?
You hide the cables quite nicely behind those Gammas :cool:

Dear Christoph,

My wife said turntables are like art sculpture. I quickly said back to her she has eyes and vision like top CEO. Then I showed a picture of AS 2000 to her and got down on my knees. :eek:

You just have to know what to do at the right time.

Tang
 

Audiophile Bill

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Sorry...i know you are looking at Dreiklang, but you are wary of big speakers that can overload, correct? Even monitors improve with distance into the room, but can do without better than big full Rangers, as can Heco.

Totally right. I am indeed wary now of big complex and large multiway designs in my room now for certain.
 

PeterA

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Peter,
Have you heard the Q1? If so, what were your thoughts?

Tango said:
Excuse me for butting in.

I used to have MiniII running with AR Ref 600. I auditioned Q1 with big Burmeister amp didn’t remember which model. My combo with MiniII was much more natural, not Hifi like the Q1 with Burmeister.
MiniII like a lot of power. I had them first with Ref 210 and they didn’t sing to me. Changed to Ref 600, I had to add more air con but they sang beautifully. Then I got married. Sold all audio gears because my wife didn’t like messy wires in living room .

MiniII total package with stand are like angel...sooo beautiful, heavy, best finish. Q1 is like angel fallen off the sky.

Kind regards,
Tang

Hi Jeffrey, I agree with Tango. I have heard the Q1 on three occasions, but never in my own system. I found it to be an incredibly transparent transducer, but it left me cold. I don't know if it was the set up, the associated gear, or the speaker itself, but it just struck me as less involving. It looks like a chopped off version of the Q3 and just seemed like a budget version of their Q series. The Mini II was a statement product at the time, a complete vision and the best monitor Magico could then make. It was wildly expensive. It is beautiful. And I agree that it sounds more natural in my system than the Q1 ever did when I heard it.

Some say the Q1 tweeter is much better and that the cabinet is more inert. That may be. A technician who replaced one of my drivers told me that he also owns the Mini II and prefers it to the Q1. I think he compared them directly a few times. He sited the mid/woofer as sounding more like real music. I suspect that if I replaced the Mini II with the Q1, I would have now moved onto another speaker, probably a small three way floor stander. Instead, I decided to keep the Mini II and build my system around that because the sound is excellent, and it looks tremendous in my room.

The Mini does need a lot of power. I replaced my XA100.5 with the 160.5. These amps have 320 Class A watts into the 4 ohm load of the Mini II, plus more power in Class A/B. As I continue to refine my system, the Mini II does not seem to be the weak link. There are times I would like a bit more extension, like when I visit MadFloyd and hear his M Pros play cello or piano. I have tried to integrate subwoofers on two occasions and prefer them without. The subs I tried detracted from the overall clarity of the system, though they did provide greater extension. It was a trade off that I decided I could live without.
 

PeterA

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Totally Agree on Magico Mini II--I've heard many of the floor standing models and seem to lack the fullness body(Warmth?) and cohesion in a Domestic room like the Mini II

Plus none of the slight hardness and digital emphasis of the other models--they don't do it for me .

Peter you have a Classic there-----I feel its the best Speaker they make /Made sorry!

Purely personal:b YVMV

BruceD

Thanks Bruce. I agree. If I had a bigger room, I would love to have a pair of the old M5s. I heard them once and they sounded exactly like the Mini II only bigger and more extended. On orchestral music, they were unbelievable. Of course the reviewers skewered them and the Mini II when the Q5 and Q1 were released. Now the M5 can be had for about $20K and the Mini II for about $10K, IF YOU CAN FIND THEM. I don't know if the Q5 or Q1 will be considered classics in years to come.
 

PeterA

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Also in many normal sized EU rooms the 2 way will sound better

I agree, and this room/speaker matching is often overlooked. In the right room, with the right gear, a small 2 way can load up the room nicely, and if the listener and speakers are in the optimal positions in the room, the speakers will disappear like few larger speakers could ever dream of. Small speakers do have their limitations though. I depends on budget, space, and the type of music one likes. As Al wrote earlier, every speaker is a compromise of some sort. And if one can't find any faults, then it's probably the speakers outrageous cost.
 

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