Strange Vinyl Decomposition

RBFC

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Here's a photo of an LP sent to me by my brother. He has two LPs that have both been stored in DiscWasher sleeves that both exhibit this "bubbling" on one side only.

Any ideas how this occurred?

Lee
 

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DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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La Jolla, Calif USA
Hi Lee, I had a similar thing occur a few years back with one of my LP's:mad:. I think what has happened is that the rice paper of the sleeve has leached into the vinyl. This is most likely caused by the Lp being stored either flat with something fairly heavy on top of it, and/or storing in too hot a location. Look inside the rice paper sleeve and see if you can spot any of the areas where the rice paper has separated. At least that is what happened in my instance:(
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
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I can't imagine it's a good state at the moment... ;)

I used to live in Columbia, MO and hung around with some of the Discwasher folk (they also imported Stax and had some great equipment around the place). I have a vague memory of this issue being about what DaveyF said, and there was some concern about cleaning it off. I think the DW system worked but am not sure... Too long ago. I know some of the popular plastic sleeves of the day were (or rather created) a mess.

I have also seen mold grow and attach to discs, though more rarely, and often because it was on the album sleeve and gravitated to the LPs. It would usually flake off under light brushing and succumbed to cleaning although sometimes slowly.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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I have some of those VRP sleeves and this has never happend to me. Bummer dude. Something about the way these records were stored isn't kosher.
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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New York City
Here's a photo of an LP sent to me by my brother. He has two LPs that have both been stored in DiscWasher sleeves that both exhibit this "bubbling" on one side only.

Any ideas how this occurred?

Lee

Lee: Not sure this is a "rice paper" sleeve. This is what I consider Type 2 VRP/Japanese sleeve; the next was the blue lettered Made in Taiwan sleeves (there might be another generation of VRP sleeves that I found since the piece but I'm not at home to check this out). The original, rice paper sleeve, as far I can discern, used brown lettering (see link). This sleeve probably uses HDPE instead. That's why see "rice paper-like" logo now used by MFSL.

There's a little more info here:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue38/lp_sleaves.htm

As far as the damage goes: I've heard "rumors" about this type of problem but it's never been documented.

I've used VRP's (and a variety of other sleeves) for quite a while and never had this problem. The record though, probably comes from the '70s/'80s when companies were using reground vinyl and other assorted crap to press their records. I doubt Ohm used good vinyl and for all we know, there were some chemicals (plasticizers?) in or on the surface of the LP leached out and reacted with the inner sleeve.
 

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
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Manila, Philippines
Nice inputs, Myles. Vinyl can have strange characters. I remember a Crystal Clear Carlos Montoya D2D LP I bought sealed in the 80s. I don't play it often. After 10 years or so I tried to sell it only to find out that the shinny black color of the surface had become pale and almost with a whitish texture. When I played it, I heard a constant 'swishing' sound that makes it unlistenable. One Concord LP of mine also developed some whitish crystal-like mark on the surface, though it plays clean, but a friend of mine told me they are micro-cracks of the grooves, which in time can get worse. So far, I never had any contamination related problems from inner plastic sleeves. My favorite is the Nagaoka N102. It feels so silky smooth as the record slips in. I also have some VRP and MF sleeves. As for heat and inner sleeves, I saw one of my friend's M&K For Duke developed white swirling marks coming from heat in the attic that made the inner sleeve plastic stick into the grooves. Amazingly, it played fine.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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just curious; is that bubbling actually in the vinyl or like a stain on the surface? has the vinyl delaminated?

i would suggest that if it has only stained the surface that you might attempt to use a steam gun to get it to release. i've not personally tried steam but a friend has and it seems to be able to remove stains pretty well. if it is only a stain and for some reason the steam will not remove it i would expect that it shouldn't affect play.
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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1,225
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
just curious; is that bubbling actually in the vinyl or like a stain on the surface? has the vinyl delaminated?

i would suggest that if it has only stained the surface that you might attempt to use a steam gun to get it to release. i've not personally tried steam but a friend has and it seems to be able to remove stains pretty well. if it is only a stain and for some reason the steam will not remove it i would expect that it shouldn't affect play.

He said it's bubbling, but I haven't seen this LP in person. The picture I posted is all I've seen. I forwarded your comments to him. Thanks.

Lee
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Hmmm... I would be concerned that hot steam might cause softening/melting of the LP. Some of those plastics were not the best...

my friend uses a basic 'off the shelf' domestic steamer with either distilled or Aquavina water and as long as you are reasonably careful it's not harmful at all to the vinyl. if you use pressure or do it for an extended time where the heat could deform the vinyl then it could be a problem. but just a quick burst should simply loosen any sort of stain or film.

to be conservative first try it on some 'throw-away' Lps.
 

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