Horns 2017

morricab

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Having heard these 5-way with Passive through Transcendant Kit OTL, and active using transistor, the difference was minimal. Slightly better tone on individual instruments on passive and better holding together of orchestral on the active. I have heard another 5-way with massive tapped horns using active. That was a bit sterile but could be managed. So - it is about the implementation.

What did you think of those Transcendent OTLs?
 

bonzo75

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What did you think of those Transcendent OTLs?

He had built them from the kit. The active with the transistor sounded almost as good tonally. The system was too complex to isolate the transistor otherwise, if I had another SET I could have checked. He was very positive about their low end compared to other stuff he had tried over the years in terms of SETs. But he wasn't a high end guy, more of a DIY guy, so he never tried any branded SETs. He seemed to think through design philosophies and implement them, including his analog - low cost technics, own made tangential arm, lyra delos.
 

morricab

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He had built them from the kit. The active with the transistor sounded almost as good tonally. The system was too complex to isolate the transistor otherwise, if I had another SET I could have checked. He was very positive about their low end compared to other stuff he had tried over the years in terms of SETs. But he wasn't a high end guy, more of a DIY guy, so he never tried any branded SETs. He seemed to think through design philosophies and implement them, including his analog - low cost technics, own made tangential arm, lyra delos.

But the result was high end sound quality?
 

Robh3606

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My hybrid horn project being a 4 way and 14 drivers for the pair,the only option I have is DSP. I understand many horns use passive crossovers,but I would think on these large horns DSP would enable better performance. Minus the digital vs analog debate am I wrong?

Hello Roger

There is one thing that DSP cannot fix and that is directivity. Depending on the size of the horn vs frequency and physical offsets between the horns in the system you can have significant differences in directivity over the bandwidth of the horns through the crossovers and the overall system response. This can significantly effect the off axis response and overall in room response. This can make placement difficult and cannot be fixed with simple EQ of the frequency response.

Rob:)
 

RogerD

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Hello Roger

There is one thing that DSP cannot fix and that is directivity. Depending on the size of the horn vs frequency and physical offsets between the horns in the system you can have significant differences in directivity over the bandwidth of the horns through the crossovers and the overall system response. This can significantly effect the off axis response and overall in room response. This can make placement difficult and cannot be fixed with simple EQ of the frequency response.

Rob:)
Thanks for the insight
 

jdza

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One small thing though - the guy was very old and had been working on his system since the 1970s so never exactly asked him when he reached this stage - lol

I am glad you got around to this system.. Hopefully you get to Roggero too :
 
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bonzo75

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But the result was high end sound quality?

Better than high end, by far. I would take this over all the systems I have heard, except Mike's and 4 to 5 other horn systems. Despite the fact that in this I did hear a couple of issues in cross offers. Just incredibly natural Though, I can't take it even if I wanted because it is not for sale and the size is difficult... Though I like the way he has made it same color as the floor so it blends in better
 

bonzo75

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I am glad you got around to this system.. Hopefully you get to Rogerro too :

Ah you know Karel? Time again to revisit your list. They are tough to find on forums though. If you have any contacts please PM
 

jdza

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Ah you know Karel? Time again to revisit your list. They are tough to find on forums though. If you have any contacts please PM

Karel is a very private person ,so I have to be careful. He goes under Carolus on many fora. If one look carefully at his system ,you will see a lot of very intelligent thought that went into it: The fundamental would be the development of the Klipschorn into a full range low coloration device. In the bass the horn was up scaled from 15 to 18 inch drivers thus making it an ElectroVoice Patrician horn (cf. Early Arnie Nudell with the 4/3 Khorn). He then addresses the Khorn's single biggest flaw,i.e. over extension of the bass horn to the too small midhorn. This by the introduction of the WE 66 midbass,allowing lowering of the Khorn crossover from the too high 400Hz to a more manageable frequency, replacing the horribly coloured K mid with the far less coloured Iwata mid, a second smaller Iwata for treble and finally a high tweeter.Basics of good horn design-more horns,narrower bandwidth.

The other element of Karel's insight is the seemingly haphazard placement of the WE snail horn: Straighten that horn and you will find the driver at exactly the same plane as all other drivers bar the K bass driver. Second fundamental principle of good horn system design. Time alignment of all drivers,then crossover and then and only then final physical driver alignment.

Karel contacted me after my seeing my Klipschorn based system on the old aca.gr site. Under his guidance the k mids was replaced by the magical Iwatas. This unraveled the ball of compromises that makes the K horn work as a complete system far better than the sum of its parts . It was further with Karel's(who I have never met) guidance that my system evolved into ,what is to me ,an extremely enjoyable whole. Without his input ,I have no doubt , I would have owned some ornate walls and Magnepans.

Marcel Rogerro,too, must by very elderly by now. I have little to no French an he no English but I owe him a lot (obvious from photos) Visit melaudia.net for more.

http://http://www.melaudia.net/ecouteSud04MR-1.php

http://www.melaudia.net/ecouteRoggero07-0201.php

http://www.melaudia.net/sud1006-0301.php

http://forums.melaudia.net/showthread.php?tid=6797&page=1

The last of my inspiration systems is alas no more. It was the system of Rene Simmond on the shores of lake Geneva. He moved and I believe the most beautiful basshorns ever now serves as storage space for bicycles.
 
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bonzo75

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Yes the above is Karel's. He struggled a bit with English but surprised me with insights whatever brief words he spoke.
 

Tango

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Best looking horns from Cessaro 2017+1

913745E0-A637-4479-8671-D325B54DBCE1.jpeg
79391223-9085-4D90-8A9B-40642057B69E.jpeg
 

microstrip

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He had built them from the kit. The active with the transistor sounded almost as good tonally. The system was too complex to isolate the transistor otherwise, if I had another SET I could have checked. He was very positive about their low end compared to other stuff he had tried over the years in terms of SETs. But he wasn't a high end guy, more of a DIY guy, so he never tried any branded SETs. He seemed to think through design philosophies and implement them, including his analog - low cost technics, own made tangential arm, lyra delos.

Can you give us more details about the system? What type of active crossover and "transistor" was being used? Any digital or DD Technics? :)
 

bonzo75

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DD technics. Did not listen to any digital. Typo in my quoted post, I could not isolate the OTL otherwise.

I will write detailed posts on a couple of DIY horns. Not sure I have all the technical details though, but will write the drivers and crossover points
 

microstrip

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morricab

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carolus

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.... It used to be Kaneda active with Hiraga "le Monstre" Class A amplification ...
http://www.melaudia.net/ecouteNord05Karel.php

Hi jdza.
I am back ...

FI, for the home brewers, departement DIY:
Some minute info (& pics) from my "Octopus" 2x4 way monster ...
Octo-pus ....or ... Oct-opus
Components:
Bjt original, 2x4 way Monster PCB's 4watt analog. Kaneda 2x4 way actif X-over 18dB/oct. Not visible the Kaneda line amp.
Central 0Volt point. PSU with 2Farad & 2 Transfos (12VDC & 36VDC). Cabling Vob-st 1,5mm2.

It's all music ... I like it. (&.o.).
Karel



OCTOPUS Monster 4way.jpg
Octopus 8 monsters.jpg
Octopus monster Amps(R).jpg Octopus monster X-over ana Kaneda.jpg
 

Tango

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The pricing is not yet released.
 

bonzo75

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Hi jdza.
I am back ...

FI, for the home brewers, departement DIY:
Some minute info (& pics) from my "Octopus" 2x4 way monster ...
Octo-pus ....or ... Oct-opus
Components:
Bjt original, 2x4 way Monster PCB's 4watt analog. Kaneda 2x4 way actif X-over 18dB/oct. Not visible the Kaneda line amp.
Central 0Volt point. PSU with 2Farad & 2 Transfos (12VDC & 36VDC). Cabling Vob-st 1,5mm2.

It's all music ... I like it. (&.o.).
Karel



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Good to see you here Karel. It's Kedar
 

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