Golden Gate 2 Reactions

Zero000 · Jul 9, 2018

bonzo75 said:
This is bs. No one is insecure. I have heard WE NOS 101d, 104d, all those VT52 etc...i haven't heard your Marconi. The EML Lampi 45s and the KR valves are really good. And it is good they are improving on their previous valves.

I have compared GG to GG2 and Pacific. The biggest takeaways are get your caps and your valves right. That is what makes Lampi move from a very good dac to the best dac... Yes, it is true in different systems different valves could sound better, but it always comes down to usual suspects. Now the usual suspects level has been increased after two or three years, and that is for the better of all.

I disagree it isn't BS at all. It is true. It doesn't matter if the valves are getting better it is still true.

Listening to EML and KR all the time is just boring. Especially when you have a system to listen to all the time. Quick compares do reveal differences but a change in flavour becomes most welcome for me after over exposure to the EML KR mould.

bonzo75 · Jul 9, 2018

User211 said:
I disagree it isn't BS at all. It is true. It doesn't matter if the valves are getting better it is still true.

Listening to EML and KR all the time is just boring. Especially when you have a system to listen to all the time. Quick compares do reveal differences but a change in flavour becomes most welcome for me after over exposure to the EML KR mould.

I have had a system when I had the KR, as do many others. You need to change your cables and laptop, that's what is holding it back.

Zero000 · Jul 9, 2018

I have a new laptop.

My cables are fine. I wireless losslessly stream or use HDMI to SPDIF.

Draw a car analogy. A car collector will realise his most highly performing cars. But he doesn't want to drive those all the time, because it is just boring. Depending on his mood, he selects lower performance models very often in preference to the higher performance ones. Just because the blend of compromises is entirely different.

wisnon · Jul 9, 2018

User211 said:
It is a brilliant marketing strategy. KR amd EML keep releasing new tubes, and we keep arguing which is the best, creating insecurity that you haven't got the latest and greatest, and therefore ensuring a constant demand.

However, to a greater or lesser extent, the EML and KR tubes all have a houseish Eastern European sound, that can be realised when selecting NOS options, which sound really quite different.

I'm actually glad most are getting hooked into the new valves as NOS options in good condition are getting thin on the ground.

Actually , NO, Justin. Tube construction matters and mesh is different from Solid plate and Zirconium coating sounds different. Elrog Toriated is also different. Note, I say different and not "better". As for NOS, constuction matters there too, this is why we use terms like double mica, black plates and double D getter. You gotta try before you can conclude definitively.

As to rectis? the KRON 5u4g has a TECHNICAL advantage over all other rectis. It has 10x the vacuum power and should in theory last a lot longer than modern rivals nad NOS. Indeed, as many like the sound, its the bargain purchase or the recti litter.

morricab · Jul 9, 2018

User211 said:
I have a new laptop.

My cables are fine. I wireless losslessly stream or use HDMI to SPDIF.

Draw a car analogy. A car collector will realise his most highly performing cars. But he doesn't want to drive those all the time, because it is just boring. Depending on his mood, he selects lower performance models very often in preference to the higher performance ones. Just because the blend of compromises is entirely different.

If you want to be a tube collector this is fine...I would rather have a DAC with less of its own flavor so that it doesn't get boring...

wisnon · Jul 9, 2018

User211 said:
I have a new laptop.

My cables are fine. I wireless losslessly stream or use HDMI to SPDIF.

Draw a car analogy. A car collector will realise his most highly performing cars. But he doesn't want to drive those all the time, because it is just boring. Depending on his mood, he selects lower performance models very often in preference to the higher performance ones. Just because the blend of compromises is entirely different.

Justin, my friend, a laptop is never going to cut it. You need to get a proper server with power treated right and proper isolation. It does not need to cost a fortune. Let Domansky bring you a midpoint server to demo. I think he is in York but can easily get down to Bristol.

As to having more tubes to play with, I am with you there. Nice to try extreme NOS tubes and get widely different flavours. You and I have been able to find cheap enuff NOS, that we have built up a nice Rolling stable. However, the RK300b is definitely above KR300b and EML mesh 300b.

wisnon · Jul 9, 2018

morricab said:
If you want to be a tube collector this is fine...I would rather have a DAC with less of its own flavor so that it doesn't get boring...

I am the opposite, I find most SS Dacs boring... they cant help it. luxury Automatic car vs a racing manual transmission. LoL

Mike Lavigne · Jul 9, 2018

wisnon said:
I am the opposite, I find most SS Dacs boring... they cant help it. luxury Automatic car vs a racing manual transmission. LoL

not the way I would express that analogy. of course, real race cars don't use a manual transmission.....as on a race track they get exposed as way too slow. do you use a race track? but manual transmissions are fun in a retro sort of way. and that analogy likely fits.

whether dacs or amps.

LOL

Zero000 · Jul 9, 2018

wisnon said:
Actually , NO, Justin. Tube construction matters and mesh is different from Solid plate and Zirconium coating sounds different. Elrog Toriated is also different. Note, I say different and not "better". As for NOS, constuction matters there too, this is why we use terms like double mica, black plates and double D getter. You gotta try before you can conclude definitively.

As to rectis? the KRON 5u4g has a TECHNICAL advantage over all other rectis. It has 10x the vacuum power and should in theory last a lot longer than modern rivals nad NOS. Indeed, as many like the sound, its the bargain purchase or the recti litter.

I'm not denying the points you have made, Norman. In fact I agree.

Nonetheless I stand by my previous assertion that NOS examples sound rather different to modern construction Eastern European valves.

Likewise Russian valves even NOS are notably non American sounding.

Chinese different again etc etc.

It is all down to construction and indeed an EML valve looks far more similarly made to a KR than a Russian, Chinese or English valve etc etc.

Search deeply within your soul and you'll know I am just reflecting what you are saying LOL. But justifying why there is this Eastern European sound.

wisnon · Jul 9, 2018

Mike Lavigne said:
not the way I would express that analogy. of course, real race cars don't use a manual transmission.....as on a race track they get exposed as way too slow. do you use a race track? but manual transmissions are fun in a retro sort of way. and that analogy likely fits.

whether dacs or amps.

LOL

LoL

Yes more accurate and note my argument was not about better.

I see your analogy and raise you another...LoL

Tesla whiplash acceleration vs V12 oomph. LoL

Sorry, couldn't resist restarting that old argument. All is the spirit of fun. hehehehe

wisnon · Jul 9, 2018

User211 said:
I'm not denying the points you have made, Norman. In fact I agree.

Nonetheless I stand by my previous assertion that NOS examples sound rather different to modern construction Eastern European valves.

Likewise Russian valves even NOS are notably non American sounding.

Chinese different again etc etc.

It is all down to construction and indeed an EML valve looks far more similarly made to a KR than a Russian, Chinese or English valve etc etc.

Search deeply within your soul and you'll know I am just reflecting what you are saying LOL. But justifying why there is this Eastern European sound.

LoL

Well I did kinda concede earlier, somewhat:
As to having more tubes to play with, I am with you there. Nice to try extreme NOS tubes and get widely different flavours. You and I have been able to find cheap enuff NOS, that we have built up a nice Rolling stable. However, the RK300b is definitely above KR300b and EML mesh 300b.

Alrainbow · Jul 9, 2018

Love your comment mine. Paddles for me always.
But by super charged conv mini is a 6 speed manual i could get the semi auto with the copper works.

Alrainbow · Jul 9, 2018

As for new and nos. I have many pairs of both and the better made new ones have many of the qualities of the old
But as a house sound I think you do have a point to be made.

My current fav for my head dac a one off is the 2A3 in nos or new
I have a few old nos and a few new nos ones
But king is the eml mesh ones but they are not old or new
They are there own many times the size of typical 2A3
Playing now are two sets one is a psvane we275 the other is a rca 2A3
None sound as good as the eml and both nos and new have the house sound of a 2A3.
What’s missing on both of the little ones is a type of inner detail and forward ness. It’s also the sound of piano the eml gets all of it
And it’s even more obvious with the new amps

dctom · Jul 9, 2018

Well I cant say I have found my GG with 242s boring - some music can become tedious, but even music I had dismissed or not really payed attention to in the past can sound quite compelling now, when it comes up on random play.

I have experimented with a couple of valve varieties the 242s have been the best. I dont really want to keep swapping out tubes to change the sound which probably means I am boringly unadventurous . Might try a different recti sometime, currently using EML 5U4G mesh

bonzo75 · Jul 9, 2018

dctom said:
Well I cant say I have found my GG with 242s boring - some music can become tedious, but even music I had dismissed or not really payed attention to in the past can sound quite compelling now, when it comes up on random play.

I have experimented with a couple of valve varieties the 242s have been the best. I dont really want to keep swapping out tubes to change the sound which probably means I am boringly unadventurous . Might try a different recti sometime, currently using EML 5U4G mesh

You have the KR recti right?

Alrainbow · Jul 9, 2018

dctom said:
Well I cant say I have found my GG with 242s boring - some music can become tedious, but even music I had dismissed or not really payed attention to in the past can sound quite compelling now, when it comes up on random play.

I have experimented with a couple of valve varieties the 242s have been the best. I dont really want to keep swapping out tubes to change the sound which probably means I am boringly unadventurous . Might try a different recti sometime, currently using EML 5U4G mesh

Do you have the cheap Chinese recti ? It’s better for me then the eml mesh
That recti has some grain on my setup

astrotoy · Jul 9, 2018

wisnon said:
If you can afford it...RUN dont walk and take the tradeup to the Pac. I think the introductory (generous) trade in terms may be coming to an end soon.

I have a demo unit here at the moment and its a big WOW! Tubes? EML45 Anniv meshGlobes, Chinese 2724, KR242 and Kron 5u4g recti are much heralded, as is the RK300b.

Hi Norman, thanks for all the help. Lukasz has recently changed the rules on the trade in policy. Now it is 1% a month depreciation on the trade in value from the purchase price. So a three year old GG is reduced in value by 36% as a trade in. That makes more business sense to me than giving full value to a trade in no matter what the age.

Larry

dctom · Jul 10, 2018

bonzo75 said:
You have the KR recti right?

Only have the emission labs 5u4g don’t have KR

dctom · Jul 10, 2018

Alrainbow said:
Do you have the cheap Chinese recti ? It’s better for me then the eml mesh
That recti has some grain on my setup

Not familiar with that recti- which one is it?

bonzo75 · Jul 10, 2018

dctom said:
Only have the emission labs 5u4g don’t have KR

The KR is quite better than the EML.

Golden Gate 2 Reactions

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

VIP/Donor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Similar threads