Golden Gate 2 Reactions

Alrainbow · Oct 2, 2018

Sounds good the 400 watt is the large outside unit or the dc atx inside is 400 watt.
Also any drive used for OS is best on its own dc power rail this helps with noise as it seeks data
If you use the same dc rail for music drives and OS it’s obvously inproved when separated
Also try the usb 3.0 and not a usb card for me it’s no longer worth it to use for audio to dac
Also if you use an ext usb drive for music use the audio card for this. A friend told me to try it he is right it makes it better.
Typo corrected

ingemar · Oct 2, 2018

Alrainbow said:
Sounds good the 400 watt is the large outside unit or the dc atx inside is 400 watt.
Also any drive used for OS is best on its own dc power rail this helps with noise as it seeks data
If you use the same dc rail for music drives and OS it’s obvously inproved when separated
Also try the usb 3.0 and not a usb card for me it’s no longer worth it to use for audio to dac
Also if you use an ext usb drive for music use the audio card for this. A friend told me to try it he is right it makes it better.
Typo corrected

I'm using the outside version of hdplex for the pc it self and the rest of the lps for the sotm card and the ssd os drive

Zero000 · Oct 3, 2018

Currently evaluating the EML Telefunken AD1 copy that arrived last night.

This is a 4V tube (like PX4) that draws 1.5 amps (the original apparently drew 0.9 amps). This makes it longer lasting than the original. See the EML website http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML-AD1.htm.

This is a big valve, bigger than the KR 300B, for example, height wise, that is.

Will post some pics and comparison result against KR RK 300B, KR PX4 (not RK) and EML GM 45 at some stage.

christoph · Oct 3, 2018

Please do :b

shadowlight · Oct 3, 2018

How are you getting the EML AD1 to fit? Did EML built a special UX4 tube for you, because the tube sockets look totally different.

Zero000 · Oct 4, 2018

shadowlight said:
How are you getting the EML AD1 to fit? Did EML built a special UX4 tube for you, because the tube sockets look totally different.

In a word, yes

Golum · Oct 4, 2018

Yesterday night Norman was at my place and we had a small tube rolling session with my newly arrived GG2.5 (as we named it - and Norm can maybe explain this better).
Tubes we rolled were Elrog 300b, KR242, RK 300b and for the sake of fun National Union 45.
Firstly I have to mention, due to the fact that I was "suffering" with high output voltage with my previous GG overdriving my preamp, this thing is in the new DAC solved to the extent that with each different tube type output gain is almost the same, so for example inserting famously high gain 242 we still had to play it on almost the same level as for example 300b or 45 which for me is something I was looking for. Recti tube we used was RK 5u4g.
I can easily say that all tubes had their own magic and for non I can say that it sounded as crap in this particular GG as for the opposite in several other GGs for example Elrog 300b sounded really really bad.

45s had a great mids and were shining in vocals while LFs were a bit wobbly and undefined. Overall extension in HF was not really top notch but still it as very pleasant tube for low volume late night listening sessions.
300b - Elrog splendid performer in all domains, huge soundstage, precise deep bass, extended HF, very nice layering and portraying the performers. RK - same comments as for Elrog but a bit more forward sounding tube and also maybe a bit tighter and extended LF.
242 - I was expecting miracles to be honest (despite the fact that in Norms GG it sounds nervous I would say due to gain mismatch, while in Chris GG and now Demo Pacific it sounds sublime) and was close to it but still not that far from both 300b. It is super dynamic, surgically precise, extended in both directions and creating a grand staging.
To sum up I can live with all 4 of them more than happily and it is just the matter of the mood, which one will plugged in, at the particular time of day/month. I can not avoid taking into account visual effect of all of those 4 as 242 and 45 look rather pathetic vs both RK and Elrog 300b and I take also this into account when plugging in the tubes as I personally enjoy looking at my gear

and especially tubes.

christoph · Oct 4, 2018

Golum said:
Yesterday night Norman was at my place and we had a small tube rolling session with my newly arrived GG2.5 (as we named it - and Norm can maybe explain this better).
Tubes we rolled were Elrog 300b, KR242, RK 300b and for the sake of fun National Union 45.
Firstly I have to mention, due to the fact that I was "suffering" with high output voltage with my previous GG overdriving my preamp, this thing is in the new DAC solved to the extent that with each different tube type output gain is almost the same, so for example inserting famously high gain 242 we still had to play it on almost the same level as for example 300b or 45 which for me is something I was looking for. Recti tube we used was RK 5u4g.
I can easily say that all tubes had their own magic and for non I can say that it sounded as crap in this particular GG as for the opposite in several other GGs for example Elrog 300b sounded really really bad.

45s had a great mids and were shining in vocals while LFs were a bit wobbly and undefined. Overall extension in HF was not really top notch but still it as very pleasant tube for low volume late night listening sessions.
300b - Elrog splendid performer in all domains, huge soundstage, precise deep bass, extended HF, very nice layering and portraying the performers. RK - same comments as for Elrog but a bit more forward sounding tube and also maybe a bit tighter and extended LF.
242 - I was expecting miracles to be honest (despite the fact that in Norms GG it sounds nervous I would say due to gain mismatch, while in Chris GG and now Demo Pacific it sounds sublime) and was close to it but still not that far from both 300b. It is super dynamic, surgically precise, extended in both directions and creating a grand staging.
To sum up I can live with all 4 of them more than happily and it is just the matter of the mood, which one will plugged in, at the particular time of day/month. I can not avoid taking into account visual effect of all of those 4 as 242 and 45 look rather pathetic vs both RK and Elrog 300b and I take also this into account when plugging in the tubes as I personally enjoy looking at my gear and especially tubes.

Thank you very much for your elaborate report :b
Did you also try the EML 45 mesh AG's?

PS: My beloved 242 might not be the most impressive looking tubes but they are, at least for me in my systems, the absolute sonic Kings. I almost always return to the 242 after a while when listening to my other tubes

Golum · Oct 4, 2018

christoph said:
Thank you very much for your elaborate report :b
Did you also try the EML 45 mesh AG's?

Thanks Chris! Not this time - we had to leave something for next time. Actually I'm wondering how RK PX4 would sound - will ask Joda Master himself on Saturday

bonzo75 · Oct 4, 2018

Golum said:
Thanks Chris! Not this time - we had to leave something for next time. Actually I'm wondering how RK PX4 would sound - will ask Joda Master himself on Saturday

They sound very good. Will be better than PX25, Lampi 45s. Never compared yet directly to RK 300b in the same system, will do soon, but having compared both to PX25, my bet is on RK PX4 being much better

christoph · Oct 4, 2018

bonzo75 said:
They sound very good. Will be better than PX25, Lampi 45s. Never compared yet directly to RK 300b in the same system, will do soon, but having compared both to PX25, my bet is on RK PX4 being much better

That's the funny thing with expectations, even if one is very experienced, one has to try before one can be certain

I also thought the EML 45 mesh AG's HAVE to be the best there is, but at least in my systems and for my taste, the 242 is always better, no matter what combo

abeidrov · Oct 4, 2018

Golum said:
Yesterday night Norman was at my place and we had a small tube rolling session with my newly arrived GG2.5 (as we named it - and Norm can maybe explain this better).
Tubes we rolled were Elrog 300b, KR242, RK 300b and for the sake of fun National Union 45.
Firstly I have to mention, due to the fact that I was "suffering" with high output voltage with my previous GG overdriving my preamp, this thing is in the new DAC solved to the extent that with each different tube type output gain is almost the same, so for example inserting famously high gain 242 we still had to play it on almost the same level as for example 300b or 45 which for me is something I was looking for. Recti tube we used was RK 5u4g.
I can easily say that all tubes had their own magic and for non I can say that it sounded as crap in this particular GG as for the opposite in several other GGs for example Elrog 300b sounded really really bad.

Hi Golum,
I've had similar thoughts comparing RK 300b to 242 on my GG2, although I think, I can hear some distortion with 242 tubes. What I don't understand is your statement about the gain being the same between 242 and other tubes. In my system the difference is at least 3 clicks on the volume pots. I think, it's more than 10 dB. Quite significant in my view. Maybe, your DAC has some magic "242 gain compensaton mechanism"?

Golum · Oct 4, 2018

bonzo75 said:
They sound very good. Will be better than PX25, Lampi 45s. Never compared yet directly to RK 300b in the same system, will do soon, but having compared both to PX25, my bet is on RK PX4 being much better

Will ask master himself to plug those in to give them a try. I guess he must have some pair stashed somewhere

Golum · Oct 4, 2018

abeidrov said:
Hi Golum,
I've had similar thoughts comparing RK 300b to 242 on my GG2, although I think, I can hear some distortion with 242 tubes. What I don't understand is your statement about the gain being the same between 242 and other tubes. In my system the difference is at least 3 clicks on the volume pots. I think, it's more than 10 dB. Quite significant in my view. Maybe, your DAC has some magic "242 gain compensation mechanism"?

Honestly don't know how to answer but the point is that we listened to all the tubes with the pot at the same position on my preamp - and the volume as such was the same. Spec sheet I got with the Lampi says that output voltage for 242 is set to be lower than I believe for 300b or 45 (sorry don't have it on hand to check)…
Actually the main reason is that this is GG2.5

capable of many different things

bonzo75 · Oct 4, 2018

christoph said:
That's the funny thing with expectations, even if one is very experienced, one has to try before one can be certain
I also thought the EML 45 mesh AG's HAVE to be the best there is, but at least in my systems and for my taste, the 242 is always better, no matter what combo

When the 242 is better, nothing comes close. People who have not compared 242 to others and seem it work don't know what one is talking about. I don't think the RK is that gain or match dependent.

abeidrov · Oct 4, 2018

Golum said:
Honestly don't know how to answer but the point is that we listened to all the tubes with the pot at the same position on my preamp - and the volume as such was the same. Spec sheet I got with the Lampi says that output voltage for 242 is set to be lower than I believe for 300b or 45 (sorry don't have it on hand to check)…
Actually the main reason is that this is GG2.5 capable of many different things

Thanks. My spec sheet says nothing about 242. Can you double check? If what you say is true, this feature must be standard on all GG2 dacs. I was not offered this option, when I ordered my GG2, and I ordered my 242 tubes from Lampizator, so Lukasz knew, I would be using 242 tubes with my dac. I am surprised, and not in a good way...

Mike Lavigne · Oct 4, 2018

abeidrov said:
Thanks. My spec sheet says nothing about 242. Can you double check? If what you say is true, this feature must be standard on all GG2 dacs. I was not offered this option, when I ordered my GG2, and I ordered my 242 tubes from Lampizator, so Lukasz knew, I would be using 242 tubes with my dac. I am surprised, and not in a good way...

I've been out of the GG game for over a year now, but my recollection is that the GG has a 'gain' switch on the back that allows a choice of 2 or 3 levels of gain, of which the 242 needs the least. I thought it was standard on the GG2.

on my late version '1' GG I had the lower gain setting for the 45/101 be lowered even further (by lowering the whole circuit gain) to accommodate the 242. the other setting was for 300b.

I preferred the 242 performance, when it was properly accommodated by gain, to be the best sounding for my system, but the adjustment to that on my version '1' lowered the gain for the other choices too, and compromised their performance. ideally you would have the optimal gain for each tube grouping.....which I thought the GG2 had standard.

christoph · Oct 4, 2018

abeidrov said:
Thanks. My spec sheet says nothing about 242. Can you double check? If what you say is true, this feature must be standard on all GG2 dacs. I was not offered this option, when I ordered my GG2, and I ordered my 242 tubes from Lampizator, so Lukasz knew, I would be using 242 tubes with my dac. I am surprised, and not in a good way...

I can assure you that at least the demo Pacific I have here does NOT have such a gain levelling feature. The 242 is still some 6 to 10 clicks louder than the 45

wisnon · Oct 4, 2018

Not Gain Mike, heater voltage setting and overall wattage. 4.5w and 6.5w, with voltage taking priority and what left going to current to the max allowable settings I gave before. Gain is an issue of the tube amplification factor itself.

With the GG2 and Pac and I think even down to B7 now, there is a 5-point rotary switch at the back which is set precisely for the 5 tube types. Thus, each tube is much more in its sweetspot and you reap the benefits of max SQ for that tube type.

Not sure about the other models, but the Pac allows for more power, ie max wattage is beyond 8w, while our older GGs maxx out at 6.5w, so could be current limited. Recall that the Pac has a small Constant Current Source tube now that keeps the DHT is their sweetspot and never allows them to get stressed from current swings. Its part of the reason why the Pac is a great leap forward on the excellent sounding GG.

wisnon · Oct 4, 2018

abeidrov said:
Thanks. My spec sheet says nothing about 242. Can you double check? If what you say is true, this feature must be standard on all GG2 dacs. I was not offered this option, when I ordered my GG2, and I ordered my 242 tubes from Lampizator, so Lukasz knew, I would be using 242 tubes with my dac. I am surprised, and not in a good way...

Goran's Dac is a week or 2 old and he asked specifically for a very low 242 output voltage on his Dac, due to his preamp. In my setting, perhaps it would be too low? As Chris said, on the 3.5 month old demo Pac, its louder with the 242.

BTW, I call Goran's Dac the Pacific "Light". LoL
I think its crazy that the Pac doesn't generate more chatter online. It has stunned many industry players who heard it or heard about it from trusted ears.
IT IS A KILLER!

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