Mastersound PF100 PSET Amplifier

Ron Resnick

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Has anyone ever auditioned the Mastersound PF100 parallel SET (four 845 tubes) making 117 watts?


image.jpg


This may be the highest power parallel SET I have found, or which has been suggested to me, yet!
 

Ron Resnick

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Yes, that pair has all sorts of modifications on it, including wood boxes.
 

jep123

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Hi Ron.
I have had several Mastersound amps and they are very good. I have not heard this amp though. But for their asking price Mastersound sound excellent. They are stable and reliable as well.

But 4 845 tubes will for sure heat the room they are in, but I suspect that you have a nice sized room so it should not be a problem.

JP
 

Ron Resnick

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Hi Ron.
I have had several Mastersound amps and they are very good. I have not heard this amp though. But for their asking price Mastersound sound excellent. They are stable and reliable as well.

But 4 845 tubes will for sure heat the room they are in, but I suspect that you have a nice sized room so it should not be a problem.

JP

Dear JP, Thank you for responding.

Have you ever compared your Mastersound amp to an Absolare amp?
 

jep123

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Hi again.
The Absolare is of course better, as it should be. Absolare makes 85 watts monoblocks as well, if that is enough power for your system. But they are costly :). I have heard Kondo Kagura with my speakers, but the Absolare integrated is not far behind these super costly amplifiers in terms of sound quality.

I have also tried the Mastersound E 845 integrated. Although not up there with my Absolare it is not night/ day difference between these two. So Mastersound makes very good amps, there is no doubt. More refinement is of course possible, but then you must be willing to spend much more. The best Mastersound amp might be their Dueundici, a 11 watt pure set integrated wonderamp. Of course not for your system :).

JP
 

morricab

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Dear JP, Thank you for responding.

Have you ever compared your Mastersound amp to an Absolare amp?

For sure in Class A2 and not all in Class A1 (where around 50 watts is about the limit.) Unless these are monoblocks with 4 per channel but it looks like a stereo amp as there are what appears to be two output transformers. What little measurements I have seen from Mastersound suggests that their output iron is too small. This was also true for the early Ayon amps, which were made by Mastersound, as we have compared an early Ayon 32B amp to a KR VA350i and it was really wanting in the bass clarity and punch department. My Crossfire was a whole other animal with huge output iron for a 30 watt amp. The weight of this Mastersound is not enough, IMO, to have serious enough iron for the amount of DC current that has to flow through the output iron to those big 845s. An amp like that should probably have at least 15-20kg output trannies with a total amp weight nearing 70-80kg. NAT monos would be in the 40+Kg each range for similar power. Kronzilla monos are nearly 50kg each. AC monos are 100kg each just by way of comparison.
 

Ron Resnick

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Hi again.
The Absolare is of course better, as it should be. Absolare makes 85 watts monoblocks as well, if that is enough power for your system. But they are costly :). I have heard Kondo Kagura with my speakers, but the Absolare integrated is not far behind these super costly amplifiers in terms of sound quality.

I have also tried the Mastersound E 845 integrated. Although not up there with my Absolare it is not night/ day difference between these two. So Mastersound makes very good amps, there is no doubt. More refinement is of course possible, but then you must be willing to spend much more. The best Mastersound amp might be their Dueundici, a 11 watt pure set integrated wonderamp. Of course not for your system :).

JP

All else being equal (although it never is) I would think the parallel SET topology of the Mastersound (four 845 tubes in parallel, driven by 6SN7s) would sound better than the push-pull topology of the Absolare 85 (two 845s driven by two EL-34s). (Or was your Mastersound not a PSET?)

In what ways do you find the Absolare amps to sound superior to the Mastersound amps? In what ways was the Absolare amp of integrated amp more refined than the comparable Mastersound?
 

morricab

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Hi again.
The Absolare is of course better, as it should be. Absolare makes 85 watts monoblocks as well, if that is enough power for your system. But they are costly :). I have heard Kondo Kagura with my speakers, but the Absolare integrated is not far behind these super costly amplifiers in terms of sound quality.

I have also tried the Mastersound E 845 integrated. Although not up there with my Absolare it is not night/ day difference between these two. So Mastersound makes very good amps, there is no doubt. More refinement is of course possible, but then you must be willing to spend much more. The best Mastersound amp might be their Dueundici, a 11 watt pure set integrated wonderamp. Of course not for your system :).

JP

I have a small single driver speaker system that the Dueundici might be perfect for...can you tell me more about what you have heard from it? I can get one pretty cheap...
 

jep123

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Hi.
Without using all audiophile descriptions I can easily say that Absolare is the better amplifier. To put it simply; It is a lot more expensive but you can hear that as well. More details, better voices, more air, extended hights and so on. My speakers are quite revealing, so are the ones you are waiting for as well I can imagine :).

I do not think that any Mastersound amp is better than any Absolare amp. It boils down to what you want to pay really = you get what you are paying for. Although the prices are of course too high.....
 

jep123

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I have a small single driver speaker system that the Dueundici might be perfect for...can you tell me more about what you have heard from it? I can get one pretty cheap...

Or what I did not hear. The Dueundici is totally transparent, a small wonder of an amp. Buy it!

JP
 

Ron Resnick

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Thank you, JP. Your comparison suggests to me that perhaps Absolare uses better quality parts -- maybe better quality capacitors and transformers. Although I believe Mastersound winds their own transformers.
 

Ron Resnick

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For sure in Class A2 and not all in Class A1 (where around 50 watts is about the limit.) Unless these are monoblocks with 4 per channel but it looks like a stereo amp as there are what appears to be two output transformers. What little measurements I have seen from Mastersound suggests that their output iron is too small. This was also true for the early Ayon amps, which were made by Mastersound, as we have compared an early Ayon 32B amp to a KR VA350i and it was really wanting in the bass clarity and punch department. My Crossfire was a whole other animal with huge output iron for a 30 watt amp. The weight of this Mastersound is not enough, IMO, to have serious enough iron for the amount of DC current that has to flow through the output iron to those big 845s. An amp like that should probably have at least 15-20kg output trannies with a total amp weight nearing 70-80kg. NAT monos would be in the 40+Kg each range for similar power. Kronzilla monos are nearly 50kg each. AC monos are 100kg each just by way of comparison.

Dear Brad, I believe the PF100 is a mono amp -- four 845s per channel. Each mono amp is 110 pounds, which seems about right to me including big iron transformers. My double-decker 750s weigh in at 120 pounds each.

KR Audio 845s in this PF100 amp might improve its sound quality?

So does Aries Cerat make something which is Class A and not push-pull and which outputs 100 watts or more into 6 ohms?
 

Audiocrack

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Aug 10, 2012
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Hi again.
The Absolare is of course better, as it should be. Absolare makes 85 watts monoblocks as well, if that is enough power for your system. But they are costly :). I have heard Kondo Kagura with my speakers, but the Absolare integrated is not far behind these super costly amplifiers in terms of sound quality.

I have also tried the Mastersound E 845 integrated. Although not up there with my Absolare it is not night/ day difference between these two. So Mastersound makes very good amps, there is no doubt. More refinement is of course possible, but then you must be willing to spend much more. The best Mastersound amp might be their Dueundici, a 11 watt pure set integrated wonderamp. Of course not for your system :).

JP

JP, did you listen to the Kondo Kagura with standard tubes, cables and fuses? I am wondering because the Kagura should be better than the Absolare in many important aspects.
 

morricab

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Dear Brad, I believe the PF100 is a mono amp -- four 845s per channel. Each mono amp is 110 pounds, which seems about right to me including big iron transformers. My double-decker 750s weigh in at 120 pounds each.

KR Audio 845s in this PF100 amp might improve its sound quality?

So does Aries Cerat make something which is Class A and not push-pull and which outputs 100 watts or more into 6 ohms?

If that is the case then the power output seems reasonable but they must be doing something tricky with the output transformers because it would be difficult for all 4 monster tubes to be hooked up to one giant output trafo. The output transformers for SET need to be MUCH bigger for the same output as a push/pull amplifier. However, since the amp would only need to cover from 200hz and up it is not as critical as if you were driving full range.

KR tubes are usually a lot better than the Chinese tubes.

They have hybrid monos that make over 100 watts Single ended but not an all tube design. The OTL monos make 80 watts and the Concero 65s make 65 watts...all Class A and all Single ended...they don't make a push/pull amplifier, which Stavros thinks is an inferior design concept sonically.
 

DSkip

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I have not had a chance to hear the PF100 yet, but I do have the Evolution 845 and find it to be a stunning amp. I cannot compare it to Absolare so I defer to those who can, but I can say I have not found it lacking in bass when paired with the Rosso Fiorentino Volterra, Siena, or Usher Be-10 in my 20'x17'x10' room. I have found the limitations of the Compact 845 in my room on said speakers, but 30 WPC is definitely pushing it on those.

The PF100 is a monoblock amplifier with four 845 in a PSET configuration.

I do not find their transformers to be lacking. In fact, I find it to be their strength. They build these themselves and have won lawsuits with other reputable brands attempting to recreate these transformers via reverse engineering. As far as the Ayon gear, I'm not sure how much I would weigh that in consideration. MastersounD was in fact the OEM for Ayon's first series of amplifiers, but I'm not sure how they fared against MastersounD's actual product quality and standards. I also know that MastersounD's quality and design has improved substantially over the past several years.
 
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jep123

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JP, did you listen to the Kondo Kagura with standard tubes, cables and fuses? I am wondering because the Kagura should be better than the Absolare in many important aspects.

I have heard the Kagura not under what you can call "controlled" sircumstances. But several times (with the Kawero`s) and I know my amp quite well :). The Absolare has a lot more power and to my ears almost the same level of finesse. So my guess is that the Kagura`s are the better amps (I never doubted that really), but the prices difference is huge. But if money doesn`t matter....
 

Walnut Horns

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morricab

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Or what I did not hear. The Dueundici is totally transparent, a small wonder of an amp. Buy it!

JP

Will pick it up later this week! Should go nicely in my small but high sensitivity system.
 

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