Balanced Audio Technology Rex II Amplifier

c1ferrari said:

Yeah...contemplated solar, but don't think we'll be here long enough to realize a proper return.

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What...

DaveyF said:

What...

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Just looking for another property here in town...perhaps, one that can support a dedicated audio room!

Ron, IMHO...there's a simple answer when it comes to tube gear...and you just brought it up. The answer is CAT.
IME, there really is generally nothing better out there. Although I think in the lower power outputs, the amp that I just acquired is the best I have ever heard. ( CAT doesn't make a low powered model...if it did I would have bought it)
I have just gone through a period of power cord listening ( one would be surprised at the difference that various power cords make, particularly on this Jadis amp). Have ended up with a stunning sound...
and utilizing the superb Rob Fritz cables ( Audio Art) power SE-1 with the excellent Furutech FI 28 (R) connectors. ( I happen to like them a lot more than the gold plated FI 28 (G) plugs )
I do agree with you that ss is generally not that attractive an option...although depending on speaker, it can be the best option. Martin Logan's and ss are a recipe for disappointment IMO. Not something I would want to listen to for any length of time.

Ron, when you said you preferred the class D noble amps over top of line amps, you meant the top of line from MbL, or CAT?

Cat Jl7s would be my absolute dream tube pairing with the Maggie’s if I could stretch that far. Would pair it with the Cat legend and live happily ever after.

Ron if you got them I’d bring my dog over your way and you could adopt us all as well... would definitely be real contenders for the final audition shortlist.

DaveyF said:

Ron, IMHO...there's a simple answer when it comes to tube gear...and you just brought it up. The answer is CAT.
IME, there really is generally nothing better out there. Although I think in the lower power outputs, the amp that I just acquired is the best I have ever heard. ( CAT doesn't make a low powered model...if it did I would have bought it)
I have just gone through a period of power cord listening ( one would be surprised at the difference that various power cords make, particularly on this Jadis amp). Have ended up with a stunning sound...
and utilizing the superb Rob Fritz cables ( Audio Art) power SE-1 with the excellent Furutech FI 28 (R) connectors. ( I happen to like them a lot more than the gold plated FI 28 (G) plugs )
I do agree with you that ss is generally not that attractive an option...although depending on speaker, it can be the best option. Martin Logan's and ss are a recipe for disappointment IMO. Not something I would want to listen to for any length of time.

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We found the NAT SE2SE monos to be superior to the CAT JL2 signature on the Apogee Grands.

Ron Resnick said:

I meant the top of the line MBL amplifier.

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Well, I don't like those so not surprised. Spectral 360 beat them easy on the 101

morricab said:

We found the NAT SE2SE monos to be superior to the CAT JL2 signature on the Apogee Grands.

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Maybe on the Apogee Grands..But I know which amps I would go for if I was picking between these two on any other speaker...and it's not the NAT's.

DaveyF said:

Maybe on the Apogee Grands..But I know which amps I would go for if I was picking between these two on any other speaker...and it's not the NAT's.

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And you are basing this on what criteria exactly? You have heard the NAT SE2SEs? Or it is based on your own biases? Despite whatever flaws NAT amps have, being wimpy is not one of them.

Not to bash the CAT, I like them and their sound, but the NAT to my ears is more natural and realistic and has plenty of grunt for less than ultra efficient speakers.

Ron Resnick said:

In what ways did you find the NATs were superior?

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Better soundstage/imaging, more coherent top to bottom and more natural timbre. Dynamics were pretty similar as was low level resolution. Music used was classical and Jazz primarily.

And Ron heard the 70W SE2SEs here.
However I’ve heard the 120W Nat SETetrode Transmitters on planers (AA Omegas), and it was a pretty bland, bloodless affair.

spiritofmusic said:

And Ron heard the 70W SE2SEs here.
However I’ve heard the 120W Nat SETetrode Transmitters on planers (AA Omegas), and it was a pretty bland, bloodless affair.

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+1

I have heard these on planars as well and totally concur with your findings. On an Apogee Grand...which admittedly I did NOT hear the NAT's...they may well indeed work well. IME, CAT amps easily best all of the NAT's that I have heard...to my ears.
Morricab, YMMV.

DaveyF said:

+1

I have heard these on planars as well and totally concur with your findings. On an Apogee Grand...which admittedly I did NOT hear the NAT's...they may well indeed work well. IME, CAT amps easily best all of the NAT's that I have heard...to my ears.
Morricab, YMMV.

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Indeed it YMMV clearly does...

spiritofmusic said:

And Ron heard the 70W SE2SEs here.
However I’ve heard the 120W Nat SETetrode Transmitters on planers (AA Omegas), and it was a pretty bland, bloodless affair.

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I thought SE2SE and SE3 sounded better on Grands than Quad transmitters.

Ron Resnick said:

Why CAT JL-7s but not Jadis JA200 Mk IIs or Ayon Audio Orthos XS?

(I think I might find the CAT a bit too neutral and not harmonically rich enough in the midrange. In other words I think CAT amps may be the perfect amp for a solid-state person making the switch to tubes. I would be very interested to compare JL-7s to Jadis on the one side and to KR Audio Kronzilla on the other side. Truthfully, I think we could listen happily ever after with any of these top amplifiers!

I wonder if MikeL ever auditioned CAT amps on his system versus the darTZeel 458 amps?)

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Excellent question... I was living the dream vicariously through your options and am guilty of choosing Jl7s probably more for me Ron but also if you were just choosing from large kt150 push pull amps then your shortlist above could probably all do it beautifully. The Jadis could clearly make the shortlist as well. I’d even add the Conrad Johnson Art monos for consideration and then it would be a struggle. Off that list I’d try and then get it down to three and maybe the Jadis Cat Conrad Johnson might be the final contenders just because... from that I’d think it would just be about the sonic signature that draws you in most.

Truth be told I’d have a very tough time working through your present range of choices.

I would start exactly as you have by opening up to a broad list and collecting all the candidates then start the cull process.

If I was going to have to live with just one speaker then the question I’d probably ask (as it could significantly alter the strategy of all the following considerations) would be are you going to limit yourself then to just one amp type to run with the big Gryphons. If so I’d aim for the middle path and the one amp type and choice with the least compromises overall and of course only any compromises that I could live with as it’ll have to cope with all the music and mood change possible which is a big order.

If I was open to the idea of owning two amp setups instead I’d then go for musical diversity, seasonality and sufficient range of qualities in the two types of amps I’d choose from.

For me on a large ribbon I’d probably go for one potential amp setup as valve pre and solid state amp just because like you I’m not sure I could live with pure solid state long term though many can and do and ribbons do generally respond well to SS as amp particularly on some music when that difference will be obvious.

Then for the cooler days and evenings you could also have the second setup for which I would likely choose a more extreme valve approach over a middle ground or neutral valve approach because the virtue with two setups is that you can then afford to be open to enjoying the extremes rather than being caught trying to cover all bases from just a centre approach.

For the valve pairing you could then be free to go for either the large SET, push pull or OTL as you are already doing.

Next you could also then set up your sub groups of different amp types as helpful shortlists.

You’ve already identified a great solid state shortlist... Daart, Vitus and Gryphon.

For push pull kt150 it could maybe be Cat, Jadis and Conrad Johnson for example.

For SET that list could be Nat, Aries Cerat and Wavac etc then I’d just try and get each of those shortlist’s down to one choice in each and then see how the range of musical and sonic experiences out of each choice combination works overall. If I couldn’t get an initial combination that answers every need I’d reintroduce an earlier candidate and see if the mixes result better.

For the solid state amp shortlist the outcome might also be swayed by which valve pre is then going to be the outcome of the preferred all valve setup... and then which pairing of that valve preamp finalist works best with which solid state.

I do see virtues in having a couple of amps for choice long term to then help mix it up and respond to changing mood and music as well as season and time of day and even whether listening is to be primary or at times less central to how you would like your life to be experienced because we can shape our mood with music and having perception diversity allows us to just go with the flow more.