How many systems -- more than one , or one is enough.

Leif S · Nov 17, 2017

Two systems at the moment. I really don't have room for 3 lol. Main listening room currently has the VSA Endeavor 5's with VAC 200IQ monos and all the Audio Alchemy gear moved to the master bedroom with the VSA Endeavor 3MkII's and only play digital on that system.

DaveyF · Nov 17, 2017

bonzo75 said:
Precisely on the last point so haven't bought them yet. They are custom horns, with apogees a close second. Christoph's universums are also nice. But essentially depending on space and shape it is horn or apogee, and over time, possibly both. Apogees have an issue about real wall needing to be proper, and horns I need to make sure any downward cabinet pressure is not felt by the neighbors below. Horns are room friendly as long as they have space. Open plan kitchen is the way to go.

I visited Peter this weekend. I got to compare XV-1s, T, Lyra kleos, Etna, and the atlas all on Naim Aro. He has preset them so can be swapped in a minute. His Linn facility is amazing. I will write in more detail, but overall (and this is the third Linn I heard), I remain an idler and good DD types. Linn reminded me motor of Acustic raven and verdier sound, though different from them, and with excellent flow and midrange.

Ked, I would be very interested in your thoughts on the various merits/issues of the different cartridges that you heard at Peter's. PM if you like.

bonzo75 · Nov 17, 2017

Ok. Might not do today or tomorrow as Monte Verdi concert now and gf time. By Sunday or Monday.

bonzo75 · Nov 19, 2017

DaveyF said:
Ked, I would be very interested in your thoughts on the various merits/issues of the different cartridges that you heard at Peter's. PM if you like.

Hi Davey, the Dynas and the Lyra have one similarity - both are on the neutral, transparent side, not adding any extra body or color. As I moved from the Dynas to the Kleos, the Linn jumped to life - Kleos might have had less finesse than the XV-1T and S, but it was more lively. The Atlas was by far the best, it had bigger stage, dynamics, slam, an excellent balance through the frequency spectrum, and a drama, probably caused by contrasts, and in some ways it felt grand. You felt it. Right from the softest notes and from the word go I liked it much better than the Etna. The Etna, placed between the Kleos and the Atlas, seemed like a different house sound. With less drive than the Atlas, I don't think this is suited for the Linn. It would probably do better with something like a more Direct Drive/Idler TT. If someone thinks that Atlas is aggressive, and in your face, bright, etc (I don't, but see that criticism from some), they should, IMO, look at other brands. If I wanted Lyra for Linn I would buy it for the Lyra sound which I hear in Atlas, and if I was on a budget, the Kleos (XV-1 tells me Delos better than Kleos). XV-1 has all off Linn, TW Raven, and direct drives, and has owned both Atlas and Etna. I checked with him, and he seems to concur on Atlas on Linn vs Etna on DD, but I will let him comment.

Please understand - my tastes that Linn, Verdier, and TW Raven are laid back are very important to calibrate here. Should you not think so, the above might not be relevant and you could be happy with the Etna. If you like Lyra/Atlas sound, that could end up easily as the final cartridge. If you don't like the Atlas sound, or should you desire more body etc, you should look elsewhere outside Lyra - Zyx, Etsuro Urushi. EMT is great for a lower price and 1mv output for your tube phono, though so far arms seem to be EMT and fidelity research, so not sure how it does on yours. Zyx seems to do well on most arms.

DaveC · Nov 19, 2017

2 Systems in one room, they share source and preamp. Horns and cone/domes. The horns are my design and the dynamic speakers are references. Sharing the space isn't ideal, it's a bit of a PITA to switch around but it's necessary.

Tao, congrats on the new home design... but where's the built-in concrete bass horns?

I've heard the Harbeth 40.2 and 30.2 at RMAF with Vinnie Rossi's LIO... both were excellent systems and perfect for what you have in mind imo. The 40.2s were actually some of the best speakers I've heard on Bela Fleck's "A Moment So Close" from their album Live at The Quick... very few systems can play this track cleanly, the 40.2/Lio combination did it really well. I was surprised... I wouldn't say they are extremely neutral but eh... they do sound good!

DaveyF · Nov 19, 2017

bonzo75 said:
Hi Davey, the Dynas and the Lyra have one similarity - both are on the neutral, transparent side, not adding any extra body or color. As I moved from the Dynas to the Kleos, the Linn jumped to life - Kleos might have had less finesse than the XV-1T and S, but it was more lively. The Atlas was by far the best, it had bigger stage, dynamics, slam, an excellent balance through the frequency spectrum, and a drama, probably caused by contrasts, and in some ways it felt grand. You felt it. Right from the softest notes and from the word go I liked it much better than the Etna. The Etna, placed between the Kleos and the Atlas, seemed like a different house sound. With less drive than the Atlas, I don't think this is suited for the Linn. It would probably do better with something like a more Direct Drive/Idler TT. If someone thinks that Atlas is aggressive, and in your face, bright, etc (I don't, but see that criticism from some), they should, IMO, look at other brands. If I wanted Lyra for Linn I would buy it for the Lyra sound which I hear in Atlas, and if I was on a budget, the Kleos (XV-1 tells me Delos better than Kleos). XV-1 has all off Linn, TW Raven, and direct drives, and has owned both Atlas and Etna. I checked with him, and he seems to concur on Atlas on Linn vs Etna on DD, but I will let him comment.

Please understand - my tastes that Linn, Verdier, and TW Raven are laid back are very important to calibrate here. Should you not think so, the above might not be relevant and you could be happy with the Etna. If you like Lyra/Atlas sound, that could end up easily as the final cartridge. If you don't like the Atlas sound, or should you desire more body etc, you should look elsewhere outside Lyra - Zyx, Etsuro Urushi. EMT is great for a lower price and 1mv output for your tube phono, though so far arms seem to be EMT and fidelity research, so not sure how it does on yours. Zyx seems to do well on most arms.

Thanks, Ked. Thats a very interesting review. I would not have thought that the Etna would have failed to impress. Do you recall what other gear Peter was using for the demo. I presume either Naim or Linn. I also presume that he was using the Linn Urika...built into the table...and unfortunately not a great piece, IMO. Hopefully that was not the case. The Atlas doesn't surprise me, whenever I have heard it, it definitely is a winner. Too bad here in the US it's so much $$$.

bonzo75 · Nov 19, 2017

Naim Aro, Naim 500 amps, Naim phono. Kudos speakers.

Tango · Nov 19, 2017

The Atlas SL is the closest to tape on instrumentals in my opinion. I have one and I dont use it for vocals.

Tang

Hi-FiGuy · Nov 19, 2017

2 Channel and 7.3 Theater room.
My head phone rig would have to be my laptop with mt headphones plugged in.

Mike Lavigne · Nov 19, 2017

bonzo75 said:
Naim Aro, Naim 500 amps, Naim phono. Kudos speakers.

yesterday I visited a local friend who has a very similar system. with Kudos Titan 808's (quite impressed with these), Naim Streamer, Naim Preamp, and NAP500 DR. he had 5 DR power supplies. Linn LP12 tt and Lyra Kleos SL cartridge.

he had the Top of Line of all the Naim stuff except for the newest preamp (he has heard it) and the new big amps (he has not heard it). not sure which Naim phono.

he has a home overlooking the bay (Puget Sound) with big windows, and I was very impressed by how great it sounded considering all the windows. great attack and sense of weight and ease.

ddk · Nov 19, 2017

I've had up to 9 systems in one location, my love and addiction to vintage speakers necessitates multiple systems. Right now we have 4 up & running, two main for personal and commercial use and two smaller ones mostly for family entertainment but it's also used to demo the speakers in various settings. Moving large speakers in and out is always an ordeal and remains my burden....

david

bonzo75 · Nov 19, 2017

ddk said:
I've had up to 9 systems in one location, my love and addiction to vintage speakers necessitates multiple systems. Right now we have 4 up & running, two main for personal and commercial use and two smaller ones mostly for family entertainment but it's also used to demo the speakers in various settings. Moving large speakers in and out is always an ordeal and remains my burden....

david

9? Lol. This would have been like a hifi show.

ddk · Nov 19, 2017

bonzo75 said:
9? Lol. This would have been like a hifi show.

Not far from it, certainly had the high numbers of people coming to listen to systems made up of high end brands they never knew existed before.

david

bonzo75 · Nov 19, 2017

ddk said:
Not far from it, certainly had the high numbers of people coming to listen to systems made up of high end brands they never knew existed before.

david

Please list from memory, this is interesting. One current, I expect one kharma, the other your jbl, one living room Denon? Then?

DaveyF · Nov 19, 2017

Ked, no surprise that Peter was demoing using the Naim gear. I hate to say this, but I do think that the systems he utilizes don't actually give one the very best sound that the LP12 is capable of. Even though I think they do sound good, but I think one has to take their limitations into consideration when ascertaining the total SQ picture ( of the LP12 Klimax). Peter is an excellent Linn 'fettler' ( maybe even the best), but I think...and I have said this before, is not using commensurate gear to his LP12 Klimax, IMHO.
He most likely would not agree with me...but then in the UK the Naim gear is much more highly thought of than here in the US. Not saying it's bad, it's just not close to SOTA. Again, IMHO.

ddk · Nov 19, 2017

bonzo75 said:
Please list from memory, this is interesting. One current, I expect one kharma, the other your jbl, one living room Denon? Then?

Current,

Room 1 Klangfilm Bionor with the ML3's etc as you can see in the link below, with Lamm ML2s replacing the ML3s

Room 2 In rotation is various speakers but the JBL M9500's are the main ones

Living room is TAD Bass horn with Klangfilm horns, 2nd room is JBL Metrogon, mostly with the Denons but a few integrated SETs too.

In the Manhattan space there was one room for modern speakers, mostly Kharma & Wilson but there were other speakers in there that we took in trade, Lamm ML2/ML1/M1.1/M1.2/L1/L2, CEC transports wit WEISS, AN, Manley, ARC, Levinson DACs

Then we had the planar room with various Maggies, Quads, then vintage Quad, Apogee, KLH, Accoustat, and Beveridge. There were also various amplifiers along with the Lamms in this room

Corner horn music & theater room, Vitavox, JBL, Tannoy Autograph, Lamm electronics and Denon processors with Micro Seiki, Technics & Denon tts, Lamm, EAR and various vintage phono stages

Vintage speaker room, every JBL 43xx series, JBL Paragon, JBL Everest, Tannoy GRG & Autograph and Professional versions for both with Silver/Red or Gold Monitor drivers along with any other vintage ie, 40's to 70's vintage box speakers I had which included a lot of the Brit speakers too. Electronics were again mostly Lamm with ARC, Manley, CJ, AN, Levinson, Goldmund and battery powered Final Labs in rotation. Front was a Micro Seiki SZ-1 with CEC and WEISS digital

Main room was the Bionor as the main speaker all other Klangfilm horns including earlier field coils, some WE, early Altec & JBL theater systems too, electronics were all Lamm, EMT & AS tts, Revox & Studer tape decks. Also some Klangfilm, WE & Altec Push/Pull amps.

There was another room with in wall speakers of all kinds including vintage cinema ones but that was always a never ending project, did a lot of custom installs in those days too.

david

the sound of Tao · Nov 19, 2017

DaveC said:
2 Systems in one room, they share source and preamp. Horns and cone/domes. The horns are my design and the dynamic speakers are references. Sharing the space isn't ideal, it's a bit of a PITA to switch around but it's necessary.

Tao, congrats on the new home design... but where's the built-in concrete bass horns? I've heard the Harbeth 40.2 and 30.2 at RMAF with Vinnie Rossi's LIO... both were excellent systems and perfect for what you have in mind imo. The 40.2s were actually some of the best speakers I've heard on Bela Fleck's "A Moment So Close" from their album Live at The Quick... very few systems can play this track cleanly, the 40.2/Lio combination did it really well. I was surprised... I wouldn't say they are extremely neutral but eh... they do sound good!

Thanks Dave, and yes the 40.2s and 30.2s are definitely not neutral but they do the music first and trick me into not noticing their sound so much and yet still seem to give so much info seemingly coherently. In a relaxed living area I really want to be more focussed on the music and not have the system call too much attention to itself beyond the occasional glow of valves at night.

In the room of ribbons I’m going to let the whole setup be as dedicated and absolute and balanced and revealing as it can be.

Oooh concrete bass horns, nice, yes I think I can work that in! Back to the drawing board go I...

microstrip · Nov 19, 2017

ddk said:
Current,

Room 1 Klangfilm Bionor with the ML3's etc as you can see in the link below, with Lamm ML2s replacing the ML3s (...)

Really impressive list - you should write your audio memories!

Any special reason for replacing the ML3s by ML2's?

ddk · Nov 19, 2017

microstrip said:
Really impressive list - you should write your audio memories!

Any special reason for replacing the ML3s by ML2's?

Sometimes because a customer or friend requires it and sometimes because the ML2 has a different flavor than the GM70'd ML3. It's an easy change for me I have two pairs of ML2s sitting behind the speakers, one pair on the subs and another pair for the main speakers when needed.

david

gian60 · Nov 20, 2017

Really incredible David for everything and vintage speaker.
Please can you explain me,i don't know,why i am so excited and i like a lot the sound of vintage speaker like jbl 4343,Paragon,Hartsfield,Beveridge,KLH 9,quad 57,Acoustat X,RTR,
I never listen Klangfilm,and after i listen 10 minutes,the new speaker also very expensive,after 10minutes i am boring?
I dont understand
Regards
Gian

How many systems -- more than one , or one is enough.

Industry Expert

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Member Sponsor

Industry Expert

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

VIP/Donor

Member Sponsor

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

VIP/Donor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads