Koetsu

Chop

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2020
241
299
135
England
Agreed. 30-50 hours max before a Koetsu is singing at 100%. Agreed again on the arm! If you blasted your budget on the cartridge, you can look out for a used Fidelity Research FR64fx, as they're not too steep (~ $1300 in decent condition) and really bring out the beauty of a Koetsu. Either copper or silver internal wire versions are fine - I've used both. The FR64S is even better sounding and looks gorgeous (when cleaned), for a bit more when they appear. Throw on a 20g headshell (like Ikeda), some new silver leads, and you'll have plenty of mass to work the stiff suspension, resulting in a sparkling sound quality. The condition of bearings on the arm you receive is the risk and wildcard here.

I also have a Graham Phantom Supreme - they're definitely not high mass but somehow they are actually quite good for a modern arm pairing to Koetsu; there are a LOT worse choices out there (VPI unipivots - bad, Clearaudio Universal - bad, etc). You will hear *most* of what Koetsu can do with that arm. But I do feel that the FR arms take it up another notch - that's what Sugano Sr. used himself, after all!

You might try some "tricks" to see if adding mass to the Graham improves the Koetsu any, I haven't tried any myself yet, e.g. the SoundSmith heavy thumb screws. Running a smaller counterweight as far out into the stub as possible also increases effective mass, though not sure we have much of a counterweight option with Graham.

I do have to say the adjustability and ease of setup of the Graham arm is absolutely fantastic; it's hard to give that up.
Thats helpful thanks. I was thinking of a small lead plate between the cartridge and the headshell to add mass at that end - you're absolutely right , the ease of adjustmentb on the Graham is hard to give up.
 

mountainjoe

Industry Expert
Mar 25, 2015
168
74
260
Bay Area, California
eigenaudio.com
  • Like
Reactions: Chop

DasguteOhr

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2013
2,411
2,583
645
Germany
The stock FR64S headhsell is ridiculous lol - definitely a dinosaur. But you might try a heavier headshell than the RS141. The modern Ikdea headhsells (same Ikeda that strated FR, this was his next company) are 20g and fantastic. That 7g shell must be the lightest they made (no finger lift!) - I also have FR 10g and 12g headshells for the FR64fx, they're decent but the Ikedas are a lot more massive and less resonant (only downside is havig to import from Japan).
No. Original Headshell weight is 19.5g.the RS 141 have 12.5 g it is 7g lighter
but much more stable..a tip from me
P.S i don't use Finger lifts..hihi
 
  • Like
Reactions: mulveling

DasguteOhr

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2013
2,411
2,583
645
Germany
Agreed. 30-50 hours max before a Koetsu is singing at 100%. Agreed again on the arm! If you blasted your budget on the cartridge, you can look out for a used Fidelity Research FR64fx, as they're not too steep (~ $1300 in decent condition) and really bring out the beauty of a Koetsu. Either copper or silver internal wire versions are fine - I've used both. The FR64S is even better sounding and looks gorgeous (when cleaned), for a bit more when they appear. Throw on a 20g headshell (like Ikeda), some new silver leads, and you'll have plenty of mass to work the stiff suspension, resulting in a sparkling sound quality. The condition of bearings on the arm you receive is the risk and wildcard here.

I also have a Graham Phantom Supreme - they're definitely not high mass but somehow they are actually quite good for a modern arm pairing to Koetsu; there are a LOT worse choices out there (VPI unipivots - bad, Clearaudio Universal - bad, etc). You will hear *most* of what Koetsu can do with that arm. But I do feel that the FR arms take it up another notch - that's what Sugano Sr. used himself, after all!

You might try some "tricks" to see if adding mass to the Graham improves the Koetsu any, I haven't tried any myself yet, e.g. the SoundSmith heavy thumb screws. Running a smaller counterweight as far out into the stub as possible also increases effective mass, though not sure we have much of a counterweight option with Graham.

I do have to say the adjustability and ease of setup of the Graham arm is absolutely fantastic; it's hard to give that up.
Like this a good idea a Phantom have 14-15.5g depends on the length. Use a lead Plate
115826-bfece3f6-large.jpg
 

lordvader

New Member
Feb 9, 2021
2
1
3
42
Finally got my hands on a Koetsu Urishi Tsugaru! It's currently paired with an Audio Origami PU7.
Still trying to align it - the body is so long, it's so hard to see the cantilever and stylus on my protractor. I just can't get my magnifying lenses at the right angle to see the tiny thing!

It's pretty good at the moment, but know I can do better. Transient heavy music, like piano heavy jazz, breaks up fairly easily, but "gentler" music plays really nicely! There's a real prescense with this cart. The sound staging seems fill the space better, with better separation of instruments. This is the first cart I've owned that's been able to track the Telarc 1812 LP without skipping.

Would love to hear how you lot align these things - and please don't say "detachable headshell"!!!
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20210402_150110.jpg
    IMG_20210402_150110.jpg
    291.9 KB · Views: 15
  • Like
Reactions: RickS

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,586
11,653
4,410
Finally got my hands on a Koetsu Urishi Tsugaru! It's currently paired with an Audio Origami PU7.
Still trying to align it - the body is so long, it's so hard to see the cantilever and stylus on my protractor. I just can't get my magnifying lenses at the right angle to see the tiny thing!

It's pretty good at the moment, but know I can do better. Transient heavy music, like piano heavy jazz, breaks up fairly easily, but "gentler" music plays really nicely! There's a real prescense with this cart. The sound staging seems fill the space better, with better separation of instruments. This is the first cart I've owned that's been able to track the Telarc 1812 LP without skipping.

Would love to hear how you lot align these things - and please don't say "detachable headshell"!!!
i owned a Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum for 10 years many years ago, and recall i struggled to learn to align it. so it's a normal learning curve. my Etsuro Gold cartridges are like that too, but not quite as extreme as far as overhang.

what i might recommend would be an alignment protractor that is very easy to read. you might try the Best Tractor/Mint Lp. it's glass with only a single arc etched and that arc catches the light so is easier to see from a low angle. since it has a single arc, it's custom made for each arm/spindle width combo. but it's not expensive. it does take a few weeks to wait for it to be built.


i have a few protractors, and 4 tt's. the Mint Lp is the only one (a single one for each tt/arm) i use.
 

lordvader

New Member
Feb 9, 2021
2
1
3
42
i owned a Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum for 10 years many years ago, and recall i struggled to learn to align it. so it's a normal learning curve. my Etsuro Gold cartridges are like that too, but not quite as extreme as far as overhang.

what i might recommend would be an alignment protractor that is very easy to read. you might try the Best Tractor/Mint Lp. it's glass with only a single arc etched and that arc catches the light so is easier to see from a low angle. since it has a single arc, it's custom made for each arm/spindle width combo. but it's not expensive. it does take a few weeks to wait for it to be built.


i have a few protractors, and 4 tt's. the Mint Lp is the only one (a single one for each tt/arm) i use.
I've actually got a Mint Tractor!
I was able to align my previous Dynavector cart no problems - but it was much easier to see the cantilever on that one. I think it's the fact that the Koetsu is a solid, rectangular shape - just tricky to find the right viewing angle. I'll take another crack at it - feels like I'm close.
 

mulveling

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2017
234
335
168
Finally got my hands on a Koetsu Urishi Tsugaru! It's currently paired with an Audio Origami PU7.
Still trying to align it - the body is so long, it's so hard to see the cantilever and stylus on my protractor. I just can't get my magnifying lenses at the right angle to see the tiny thing!

It's pretty good at the moment, but know I can do better. Transient heavy music, like piano heavy jazz, breaks up fairly easily, but "gentler" music plays really nicely! There's a real prescense with this cart. The sound staging seems fill the space better, with better separation of instruments. This is the first cart I've owned that's been able to track the Telarc 1812 LP without skipping.

Would love to hear how you lot align these things - and please don't say "detachable headshell"!!!
Your Koetsu is stunning! Pics like that are like seeing a beautiful women for the first time haha.

The struggle is real, aligning a Koetsu to cantilever with its boxy body in the way. Low riders, and diamond cantilever models are even worse. I've got a SMARTractor; it's OK but the "set stylus here" etched dot is a little sloppy and the cantilever alignment line etchings really should extend further like the Mint LP. The Mint LP has the BEST visual alignment cues of any of the mirrored alignment tools. You're really not going to find better than that. Too bad it's *really* one for one table/arm - I broke mine trying to fit a SOTA/FR64x MINT on my Clearaudio because the spindle is larger, that was dumb of me :(

But man - last night I was quite intoxicated and had a whim to mount my old RSP - times like that call for the Graham Phantom. It's ludicrously easy and quick to align a Koetsu with its off-table alignment jig. The body is no problem because you're aligning from underneath (upside down). Literally took just a few minutes and that was with me dropping the screw nuts several times lol. The RSP sounds lovely, and I didn't damage anything :)

Some Koetsus sound magic out of the box, but most will take ~ 30 hours of break in to reach the goal line. If it tracked 1812 your alignment can't be too bad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RickS

RickS

Well-Known Member
May 23, 2018
65
98
123
NW Indiana
I used the VPI jig that came with my Prime table. It’s a simple single point overhang gauge but is amazingly simple and effective, for that table only. Getting the overhang and zenith correct takes very little time, even with the Koetsu being a low riding cartridge. I spend more time getting the VTF and Azimuth set than I do the overhang. After that I set the VTA /SRA to a neutral, bottom of the cartridge parallel to the record position and dial it in further by ear.
It’s not a scientific setup like one would get using a digital microscope and a Fosgometer, but it’s still very effective.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mulveling

wbass

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2020
175
94
93
44
Finally got my hands on a Koetsu Urishi Tsugaru! It's currently paired with an Audio Origami PU7.
Still trying to align it - the body is so long, it's so hard to see the cantilever and stylus on my protractor. I just can't get my magnifying lenses at the right angle to see the tiny thing!

It's pretty good at the moment, but know I can do better. Transient heavy music, like piano heavy jazz, breaks up fairly easily, but "gentler" music plays really nicely! There's a real prescense with this cart. The sound staging seems fill the space better, with better separation of instruments. This is the first cart I've owned that's been able to track the Telarc 1812 LP without skipping.

Would love to hear how you lot align these things - and please don't say "detachable headshell"!!!
I've seen advice (from @J.R. Boisclair I believe) to hover a Koetsu over a mirror protector, so that the cantilever doesn't compress and you can see more of it. J.R. forgive me if I'm misquoting you....
 

andromedaaudio

VIP/Donor
Jan 23, 2011
8,463
2,817
1,400
Amsterdam holland
Last edited:

mulveling

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2017
234
335
168
Last night I dusted off and mounted my old RSP; hadn't listened to it in ages. Sure the Coralstone / Blue Lace sound better but the RSP is full-blooded Koetsu sound, really great! The lacquered body and wood grain look fantastic in person. I'm grateful for every Koetsu I've been able to get my hands on over the years.

 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,185
13,610
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
Last night I dusted off and mounted my old RSP; hadn't listened to it in ages. Sure the Coralstone / Blue Lace sound better but the RSP is full-blooded Koetsu sound, really great! The lacquered body and wood grain look fantastic in person. I'm grateful for every Koetsu I've been able to get my hands on over the years.


Is there any sonic characteristic of the RSP which you prefer over your Coralstone or Blue Lace?
 

mulveling

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2017
234
335
168
Is there any sonic characteristic of the RSP which you prefer over your Coralstone or Blue Lace?
I can almost 100% say: no. Maaaaaaaybe I could stretch to say there is a nice sense of airiness to the RSP, but that could simply be a side-effect of it having slightly less solid/powerful bass versus the stone bodies. And it's really a stretch anyways. This is a circa 2000 RSP, still the original build with ~500 hours, and I'm not sure whether new RSP's sound exactly the same. Supposedly it was one of the last ones with Sugano Sr. winding the coils.

The CoralStone and Blue Lace w/ diamond cantilevers have more detail, and it doesn't at all impede the Koetsu "midrange magic"; actually it lets more of that magic pour through. I also had my CoralStone rebuilt from boron to diamond, and it allowed me to directly hear that the improvements to detail and clarity are real.

Anyways, I went through a bad sounding record last night on the CoralStone (REM "Monster" original pressing, just arrived) and then installed this RSP on a whim. I stayed with the RSP for the rest of the night and loved it. It just reaffirmed to me that even though the RSP loses in direct comparisons to its big brothers, it's still quite a wonderful Koetsu. Also it's not too common that a record is bad enough that a Koetsu can't salvage significant musical value off of it - that trait is shared across all Koetsu models. That REM was just bad (which surprised me since the prior album "Automatic" sounds stunning). I need to start a small bin of my bad-sounding valuable records :(
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,185
13,610
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
That is a very interesting report! Thank you!
 

joeling

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2014
177
51
335
Took me 8 years but finally I managed to get my Koetsu Blue Azlue to sing.

IMG_0807.jpg

Had it on VPI unipivot and later Thales am but all did not do it for me. Finally bought a used FR64S and a clone heavy lock nut and that did the trick. Had to use a wooden headshell due to hum issues when using metal headshell. Installed Soundmsith SS knurled knob bolts to try to up the weight a bit.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing