Amps for Ron to consider

morricab · Nov 7, 2017

Hi Ron,
In your ongoing queries please have a look at these:

https://highend-electronics.com/products/kr-audio-va200-mono-block-amplifiers

200 watt OTLs from KR Audio using the 842VHD triode.
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/05/kr-audio-va-200-monoblocks-new.html

Or these: http://www.kraudio.com/index.php?op...&id=33:kronzilla-dxl&catid=3&Itemid=6&lang=en

But don't forget to try these:
http://aries-cerat.eu/products/amplifiers/concero-65
or this:
http://aries-cerat.eu/products/amplifiers/ianus

Or

https://www.gcaudio.com/products/co...7-black-path-edition-monoblock-tube-amplifie/

Or

http://www.vac-amps.com/productPages/Statement450_IQ.html

spiritofmusic · Nov 7, 2017

Brad, don’t give him any more ideas LOL

morricab · Nov 7, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
Brad, don’t give him any more ideas LOL

I thought we were just getting started!

DaveyF · Nov 7, 2017

IMHO, the amps that Ron should consider are the ones that he has listened to in his own room and with his speakers. All else is a recipe for disappointment...again IMHO.

Believe High Fidelity · Nov 7, 2017

Ron has already decided to buy NAT Magmas he just doesn't know it yet (or maybe he does)

jep123 · Nov 7, 2017

It does not have to be more complicated than this one:
Absolare Signature Integrated.

I have had a lot of very good amplifiers, but this integrated is very, very special. If an integrated amp is an option for Ron, that I do not know. This amp and Rockport gets BOS in Munich every year, well deserved.

I have had mine for 1,5 years now, a great match with my Kawero speakers.

bonzo75 · Nov 7, 2017

Actually if the NAT drive the Pendragon like the Transmitters drove Analysis omega Ron will be fine

Ron Resnick · Nov 7, 2017

jep123 said:
It does not have to be more complicated than this one:
Absolare Signature Integrated.

I have had a lot of very good amplifiers, but this integrated is very, very special. If an integrated amp is an option for Ron, that I do not know. This amp and Rockport gets BOS in Munich every year, well deserved.

I have had mine for 1,5 years now, a great match with my Kawero speakers.

Thank you! But I am interested only in an all-tube amplifier. Your speakers I think are 92 dB sensitivity; mine are 89 dB sensitivity.

Ron Resnick · Nov 7, 2017

Believe High Fidelity said:
Ron has already decided to buy NAT Magmas he just doesn't know it yet (or maybe he does)

Dejan is delightful and I like very much NAT sound, but I am concerned about almost 2,000 volts into that GM-100 filament. If that tube shorts or has a runaway of some sort it could (likely would) fry my ribbon driver.

Ron Resnick · Nov 7, 2017

bonzo75 said:
Actually if the NAT drive the Pendragon like the Transmitters drove Analysis omega Ron will be fine

+1

And I think the Pendragon will be an easier load than the Omega.

Kedar, did you ever hear and compare NAT versus Jadis on any Analysis Audio or Magnepan speaker?

Ron Resnick · Nov 7, 2017

morricab said:
Hi Ron,
In your ongoing queries please have a look at these:

https://highend-electronics.com/products/kr-audio-va200-mono-block-amplifiers

200 watt OTLs from KR Audio using the 842VHD triode.
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/05/kr-audio-va-200-monoblocks-new.html

Or these: http://www.kraudio.com/index.php?op...&id=33:kronzilla-dxl&catid=3&Itemid=6&lang=en

But don't forget to try these:
http://aries-cerat.eu/products/amplifiers/concero-65
or this:
http://aries-cerat.eu/products/amplifiers/ianus

Or

https://www.gcaudio.com/products/co...7-black-path-edition-monoblock-tube-amplifie/

Or

http://www.vac-amps.com/productPages/Statement450_IQ.html

This is very kind and thoughtful of you, Brad. I appreciate it!

But if we eliminate Class AB operation and anything with transistors and specify at least 100 watts I think that leaves CAT JL7 and Statements -- two excellent candidates! (I would prefer the JL7 over the 6650-tubed Statement.)

Mike Lavigne · Nov 7, 2017

Ron,

has the Gryphon designer felt bass integration with particular tube amplifiers to be any sort of issue? or suggested any parameters to keep in mind?

will just any sort of tube amp sound 'of a piece' with the bass amps and towers?

I know this subject came up, but cannot recall what the answer was and could not find that info when I looked. so sorry if I'm back tracking here. it just seems with all this idle talk about various tube amps, they can't all integrate equally. and this issue has got to be a strong determining factor I would think.

LL21 · Nov 7, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
Ron,

has the Gryphon designer felt bass integration with particular tube amplifiers to be any sort of issue? or suggested any parameters to keep in mind?

will just any sort of tube amp sound 'of a piece' with the bass amps and towers?

I know this subject came up, but cannot recall what the answer was and could not find that info when I looked. so sorry if I'm back tracking here. it just seems with all this idle talk about various tube amps, they can't all integrate equally. and this issue has got to be a strong determining factor I would think.

I too am curious to know what Flemming thinks.

Ron FWIW, the only other super-experienced audiophile i know who might have some insight here on this is 'Mihalis' by his moniker on AGon. He owned the earlier 4-tower reference Gryphon speakers (Poseiden) for many years, and ran the main towers with Gryphon Colossseum monos (again, self-powered tower subs) but he also quite often drove the main towers with Wavac 833 Mk II monos.

microstrip · Nov 7, 2017

LL21 said:
I too am curious to know what Flemming thinks.

Ron FWIW, the only other super-experienced audiophile i know who might have some insight here on this is 'Mihalis' by his moniker on AGon. He owned the earlier 4-tower reference Gryphon speakers (Poseiden) for many years, and ran the main towers with Gryphon Colossseum monos (again, self-powered tower subs) but he also quite often drove the main towers with Wavac 833 Mk II monos.

From time to time I find myself introducing WAVAC in Hifishark ...

Ron Resnick · Nov 7, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
Ron,

has the Gryphon designer felt bass integration with particular tube amplifiers to be any sort of issue? or suggested any parameters to keep in mind?

will just any sort of tube amp sound 'of a piece' with the bass amps and towers?

I know this subject came up, but cannot recall what the answer was and could not find that info when I looked. so sorry if I'm back tracking here. it just seems with all this idle talk about various tube amps, they can't all integrate equally. and this issue has got to be a strong determining factor I would think.

Flemming was not disconcerted when I told him I would be driving the ribbon panels with VTL MB-750s. I think this may be partly because he has some respect for big VTLs due to the fact that Andy Payor used VTL Siegfrieds for some period of time before he switched to Gryphon Audio amplifiers.

We did not discuss specific tube amp parameters, but I think that Flemming would not bless low or medium power anything, tubes or otherwise. I am also pretty sure Flemming would not bless any SET, if for no other reason than the generally poor distortion measurements of that amplifier topology.

I would not consider for purchase for myself anything below about 150 watts.

To estimate or triangulate on the driver demand of the Pendragon ribbon panel think Genesis rather than Apogee.

The other factor is that I think I'm not particularly sensitive to the kind of lack of integration you are referring to. I am more interested in getting my musical and natural midrange.

microstrip · Nov 7, 2017

microstrip said:
From time to time I find myself introducing WAVAC in Hifishark ...

Fortunately it is in Singapore - Mihalis is selling his WAVAC Audio HE-833 mkII in Audiogon !!!

LL21 · Nov 7, 2017

microstrip said:
Fortunately it is in Singapore - Mihalis is selling his WAVAC Audio HE-833 mkII in Audiogon !!!

Yes, he has become a big Vitus Masterpiece Ref Series fan.

Mike Lavigne · Nov 7, 2017

Ron Resnick said:
Flemming was not disconcerted when I told him I would be driving the ribbon panels with VTL MB-750s. I think this may be partly because he has some respect for big VTLs due to the fact that Andy Payor used VTL Siegfrieds for some period of time before he switched to Gryphon Audio amplifiers.

We did not discuss specific tube amp parameters, but I think that Flemming would not bless low or medium power anything, tubes or otherwise. I am also pretty sure Flemming would not bless any SET, if for no other reason than the generally poor distortion measurements of that amplifier topology.

I would not consider for purchase for myself anything below about 150 watts.

To estimate or triangulate on the driver demand of the Pendragon ribbon panel think Genesis rather than Apogee.

I would expect that were you to have 5 different tube amplifiers, there would be 5 different degrees of bass integration perception, no doubt some of these 5 would be quite similar. tube amps all do the upper and mid bass slightly differently. and when pushed these differences will be more pronounced.

whereas 5 solid state amplifiers of relatively similar power output are likely going to predictably integrate quite if not perfectly seamlessly.

are these big issues? maybe not. it depends on what your expectations are for nearly $400k worth of amps and speakers.

and the only reason I brought this up to begin with is the quite 'non-linear' if beautiful sounding tube amps that were being thrown out there for you to consider. those suggestions need to be tempered by whether they can effectively integrate.

I know in my own system, until I was able to attain seamless integration I had a collection of nice pieces, but not what I hear now. all that dynamic capability comes with higher demands on precision. moon shots off by a degree miss by hundreds or thousands of miles.

hopefully the designer will tell you that i'm wrong, and this is a non-issue. which is why I asked what he thought.

Ron Resnick · Nov 7, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
I would expect that were you to have 5 different tube amplifiers, there would be 5 different degrees of bass integration perception, no doubt some of these 5 would be quite similar. tube amps all do the upper and mid bass slightly differently. and when pushed these differences will be more pronounced.

whereas 5 solid state amplifiers of relatively similar power output are likely going to predictably integrate quite if not perfectly seamlessly.

are these big issues? maybe not. it depends on what your expectations are for nearly $400k worth of amps and speakers.

and the only reason I brought this up to begin with is the quite 'non-linear' if beautiful sounding tube amps that were being thrown out there for you to consider. those suggestions need to be tempered by whether they can effectively integrate.

I know in my own system, until I was able to attain seamless integration I had a collection of nice pieces, but not what I hear now. all that dynamic capability comes with higher demands on precision. moon shots off by a degree miss by hundreds or thousands of miles.

hopefully the designer will tell you that i'm wrong, and this is a non-issue. which is why I asked what he thought.

Integration of the ribbon panels with the bass towers definitely is NOT a non-issue. You are totally correct to raise this issue. I can theorize and research and plot and plan all I want but until I get amplifier candidates connected I won't know much for sure.

The only thing I am sure of is that the VTLs will work well. Whether they will work ideally remains to be seen (ah, heard).

Leif S · Nov 7, 2017

Vac 450 IQ Statements

You wont have to worry about the ribbons

Amps for Ron to consider

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