Turntables: Vintage or New?

spiritofmusic

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I’m in a bit of contact w the designer, I’ll ask.
 

bonzo75

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spiritofmusic

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Ked, Vic the designer of my tt had a long history of dismantling Garrard 301s and 401s, Lenco L75s and Thorens 124s ahead of hitting on the concept of eliminating the second idler wheel, belt linkages etc, and creating his single direct rim drive wheel using v high torque, purely analog non servo feedback, oversized extra heavy high moment of inertia and max flywheel effect platter, in his interesting and fairly unique design.
His point is that torque is dissipated by that second wheel and belt linkage.
And Simone pretty much feels the original 124 suffers due to its relative lack of torque compared to his redesign, the Lenco, Garrard etc.
 

Folsom

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Precisely my point. Direct motor is best. A powerful but extremely quiet motor is ideal, that and unrelenting to pressure that tries to slow it. Slippage is an enemy for the platter, and for the lp.
 
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bonzo75

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Ked, Vic the designer of my tt had a long history of dismantling Garrard 301s and 401s, Lenco L75s and Thorens 124s ahead of hitting on the concept of eliminating the second idler wheel, belt linkages etc, and creating his single direct rim drive wheel using v high torque, purely analog non servo feedback, oversized extra heavy high moment of inertia and max flywheel effect platter, in his interesting and fairly unique design.
His point is that torque is dissipated by that second wheel and belt linkage.
And Simone pretty much feels the original 124 suffers due to its relative lack of torque compared to his redesign, the Lenco, Garrard etc.

Well Vic might be the wrong one, don't know about Simon
 

spiritofmusic

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Folsom, you might like my tt, left field design that it is based on sound engineering principles.
Trans Fi Audio Salvation rim drive and Terminator T3Pro linear tracking air bearing arm.
www.trans-fi.com
Slate plinth to combine both mass loading and natural discontinuousness to disperse vibrations.
Oversized 14” diameter 9kg platter to max moment of inertia and flywheel effect.
Torquey powerful motor w simple analog speed control.
Every time designer Vic introduced a digital feedback servo to more fully control speed, it created more l/t speed stability but combined with coldness and lack of involvement.
Going back to the pure analog simplicity motor/control reintroduced that natural warmth, but at the consequence of some inevitable speed drift over time, meaning the user is obliged to adjust for speed variations every few days, normally due believe it or not to climactic conditions.
So, heavy plinth, heavy outsize platter, high torque analog non feedback motor.
Topped off w his snazzy linear tracking air bearing arm using the shortest arm wand in existence, 3”, and critically a low pressure pump w smoothing tank (avoiding the day to day issues of arms like the Kuzma Airline that are at the mercies of a v high pressure pump), and we have killer analog, tt and arm, for under $6k.
I’ve gone and maxed it out w bespoke psu w overspecced transformer to speed controller, bespoke Al arm mount from NZ, and the Stacore Adv isoln platform under it.
Awaiting final fine tuning ahead of reinstall.
When I audition the Blackstone, it will have to so outperform my tt for me to consider moving to it.
 

microstrip

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Audiosilente Blackstone Reference idler.

It looks a nice project, but comparing it with the EMT927 is like comparing the Egyptians pyramids with the Eiffel tower!

What is the price?
 

spiritofmusic

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Micro, it’s Italian, so don’t you mean comparing with the Leaning Tower Of Pisa?
I’ll send you a PM the pricing, due to bespoke nature of product.
Btw, many reports including by those who know the 927 backwards, compare them extremely favourably, nothing much in it.
Papst motor and quartz speed control takes performance up there if reports are to be believed.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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Maybe that's the problem... Why would I want my TT to stand out? To me the invisible TT is best. Considering comparisons to master tapes have been performed on playback that is supposedly inferior, and no mastering engineer or cutting engineer, etc, can tell the difference... tells me that many stand out machines might be giving a flavor. In fact I'm sure of it when they have a metal surface for the platter used with nothing in between. Obviously I can't argue anyones preference, but I have no doubt many like a flavor since different metal platters get ordered all day, and no mats are used on them.

Countless things in the past where about compensating for their inability to manufacturer, or complementing equipment. While it was smart at the time, I'm not sure I'd say it is today. However many may prefer that sound. It's not like there is a shortage of sound shaping today.

We have different meanings for stand out!

david
 

bonzo75

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I think David's stand it was referring to those that have survived and been filtered out
 

bonzo75

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Nice pic of vintage and new found from an old pic on the web. I would love to have the Kodo (never heard yet) and a nice idler myself,
 

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XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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Nice pic of vintage and new found from an old pic on the web. I would love to have the Kodo (never heard yet) and a nice idler myself,

Ked. Why didn't you just ask Mike L for the photo? :cool:
 

Mike Lavigne

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nothing new there, unless you count the Rockport which was from 98'.

the middle tt in the picture is the Technics SP-10 Mk3 with the casework removed and installed 'nude' in the Dobbins plinth. that constrained layered plinth used layers of duralumin and synthetic slate....for extra mass and robustness to handle the Mk3 torque.
 

c1ferrari

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I would consider the A80 as vintage, but surely not the A820. Probably because the A80 only uses discrete electronics and logic ICs from the 74LS family, with analog electro-mechanics, and the A820 uses microprocessors. The A820 can be considered an embedded system!

Um...okay!
;)
 

bonzo75

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nothing new there, unless you count the Rockport which was from 98'.

the middle tt in the picture is the Technics SP-10 Mk3 with the casework removed and installed 'nude' in the Dobbins plinth. that constrained layered plinth used layers of duralumin and synthetic slate....for extra mass and robustness to handle the Mk3 torque.

Yes I know, saw it on your thread on the gon while reading up on kodo
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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Ked, Vic the designer of my tt had a long history of dismantling Garrard 301s and 401s, Lenco L75s and Thorens 124s ahead of hitting on the concept of eliminating the second idler wheel, belt linkages etc, and creating his single direct rim drive wheel using v high torque, purely analog non servo feedback, oversized extra heavy high moment of inertia and max flywheel effect platter, in his interesting and fairly unique design.
His point is that torque is dissipated by that second wheel and belt linkage.
And Simone pretty much feels the original 124 suffers due to its relative lack of torque compared to his redesign, the Lenco, Garrard etc.

How can there be "non-servo"feedback"? Maybe you mean non-digital servo (many today are PWM servos)?
 

spiritofmusic

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Yes Brad, non digital servo.
 

gian60

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In december will arrive Torqueo,
new turntable idler with old design,we see
 

morricab

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Apr 25, 2014
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Nice video on the bottom model of the Yamaha GT series the GT-750. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNcMHhBGabM it is in Russian but still visually you get a pretty good idea what he is on about.

Go to 9:25 when he takes apart the motor. Even in this "budget" design (it wasn't really but today for < 1k they are available from Japan) is using a 4 coil coreless motor! compare this with the new Brinkmann Sinus motor

http://www.brinkmann-audio.de/main.php?prod=sinus&lang=en

Very similar concept.

Now, I don't know if this model uses the bi-directional servo like the GT-2000 does but if so then this TT should deliver excellent sound. Probably a replinth would take it even higher.

What I don't know is if the GT-2000 uses the exact same motor or if it uses a larger version (Given the added platter mass of the GT-2000 one would think so) but the concept is the same.

This kind of motor and ones like the Kenwood L07-D have more potential, IMO than the ones Technics was using.

I would look at my own TTs motor if I wasn't afraid of messing something up in dissasembly. It works now like an atomic clock for over 30 years and I don't want to jeopardize this.
 

morricab

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Kenwood KP-990, 9010, 1100 have a very similar motor to the one in the GT-750...coreless and apparently slotless as well.
 

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