Highest Power SET Amplifier?

Ron Resnick · Oct 23, 2017

Is the NAT Audio Magma New SE still the highest output singled-ended triode amplifier?

Or has some other, newer product dethroned the Magma New SE?

Argonaut · Oct 23, 2017

I presume that you are looking for Pure class A full output Rom ?

microstrip · Oct 23, 2017

Harlequin said:
I presume that you are looking for Pure class A full output Rom ?

As far as I remember I think SE's are always class A.

Argonaut · Oct 23, 2017

Just quantifying whether Class A push pull triode topology might also in play here Micro. A few interesting observations here.....

http://http://www.turneraudio.com.au/loadmatch3-pp-triodes.htm

spiritofmusic · Oct 23, 2017

Ron, you know you really want those Magmas.
Like, really REALLY!

KeithR · Oct 23, 2017

power is somewhat meaningless - distortion at power is more telling. most of these "high power" SETs do so at extremely high distortion.

ddk · Oct 23, 2017

KeithR said:
power is somewhat meaningless - distortion at power is more telling. most of these "high power" SETs do so at extremely high distortion.

+1, depending on what they are some become nonlinear and distorted just past 10 Watts! Some already indroduce distortion with parallel output tubes design for that extra wattage, you need the right speaker to get the benefits of a SET amp pushing it with major design compromises to drive a load it was never intended for is the wrong approach; IMO.

david

Ron Resnick · Oct 23, 2017

Harlequin said:
I presume that you are looking for Pure class A full output Rom ?

Yes - pure Class A to full output -- no push-pull.

Ron Resnick · Oct 23, 2017

KeithR said:
power is somewhat meaningless - distortion at power is more telling. most of these "high power" SETs do so at extremely high distortion.

True, Keith and David. But those bad distortion figures generally relate to low frequencies. With biamped Pendragons I am relieving the SETs of duty below 200 Hz where the distortion is highest.

ddk · Oct 23, 2017

That’s not true Ron, depending on the speaker the resistance can become jiggy at any frequency, what’s the efficiency of your main panels? Do you have measurement to know what’s going on with speaker at various frequencies? I very much doubt that a manufacturer of high powered SS amps would have SETs in my mind when designing speakers.
david

Ron Resnick · Oct 23, 2017

Yes, but I think that is a separate variable.

I thought the largest issue with distortion from SET amplifiers occurs when the amplifiers are tasked with reproducing the lowest frequencies? SETs' output is most distorted at the lowest frequencies.

Argonaut · Oct 23, 2017

My apologies Ron for going ' Off Reservation' aomewhat, however have you considered OTL topology as one potential solution.

http://http://www.atma-sphere.com/Products/#MA-1

Good for 130-140 watts A class depending on 8 or 4 Ohm tap respectively, the next up the food chain MA-2...easily breaking the 200 Watt Class A ceiling, several similarities to SE, importantly in the midrange with less concern over distortion levels than pure SE topology.

http://http://www.atma-sphere.com/Products/#MA-2

Merely a thought.

morricab · Oct 23, 2017

Generally speaking, you don't want to drive a SET much beyond 20-30% of its rated power; however, I have experienced enough exceptions to this rule to say that it is more of a rule of thumb rather than an ironclad law.

I would avoid any SET for which measurements are available and that they show issues with bass distortion...this has ramifications throughout the whole frequency range and not just bass. Now if you are going to actively feed it only mid and higher frequencies then that requirement might be somewhat relaxed. However, I have found that even with sensitive, easy to drive speakers the top SETs with serious output iron triumph over those with weedy little output trannies. They have greater transparency, are more relaxed and will have a purer tonality.

IF you are going to push the SET hard then it really pays to look at the design and size of the power supply...if it is under strain that will likely increase distortion and lessen the sense of authority.

I have had good success with SETs and normal speakers but only from the likes of Aries Cerat, KR Audio, Ayon and NAT. I haven't had Lamm in house so it is hard for me to say what they do with normal speakers...although they don't really have a high powered model in the first place.

DSkip · Oct 23, 2017

Hello Ron,

While this one only tops out at 117 WPC and is technically PSET (not sure if that fits your category), it is a beast of a SET amp to look at:

https://www.audiothesis.com/pf100

I'm hoping in about 6 months I can afford to bring in a demo pair of these. Right now I've got the Evolution 845 (55 WPC PSET) and it is glorious. Their transformers are exceptional and one of a kind since they are developed in-house at MastersounD. One other big Italian tube amp designer lost a suit to MastersounD due to an attempt to reverse engineer their transformers.

bonzo75 · Oct 23, 2017

Ron, after you set up your speakers, borrow the Atmasphere from c1Ferrari. Get gryphon amps from Philip. See what you prefer. If you like the Atma, try the Nat.

LL21 · Oct 23, 2017

Looking forward to reading how this thread emerges...i remember having a big thread about SOTA powerful tube amps for my Strads...and eventually after pages and pages of reading, discussions and my own listening...i ended up with a Gryphon Antileon. And on to a Colosseum.

I am NOT saying this happens here, but I still am very interested in hearing what people have to recommend that fits Ron's requirements. I guess Wavac probably fit somewhere in here which I also considered seriously for a while (but could not get proper coverage here). I also have to think Aries Cerat will factor into this dialogue.

the sound of Tao · Oct 23, 2017

bonzo75 said:
Ron, after you set up your speakers, borrow the Atmasphere from c1Ferrari. Get gryphon amps from Philip. See what you prefer. If you like the Atma, try the Nat.

Great idea Ked, be good to hear any or all of these either way.

Tango · Oct 23, 2017

Dear Ron,

I assume your pendragon mains come with bass towers amps and adjustment panels that include bass gain adjustment. Even with those adjustability, if you wish to play around with SETs for main speakers make sure you do homework well on the preamp you will be using too. Using different brands is always tempting and fun but synergy of the same brand for amps and preamp I find trump the standalone goodness of an equipment and a lot less headache.

Kind regards,
Tang

Ron Resnick · Oct 23, 2017

Thank you, Tang. My only pre-amp, now or in the future, is the Io Eclipse.

And I appreciate all the comments, gentlemen. But does anybody actually have an answer to the original opening post question?

Tango · Oct 23, 2017

Ron Resnick said:
But does anybody actually have an answer to the original opening post question?

Here it is, Ron. The Wavac.

https://www.wavac-audio.jp/sh833_e.shtml

Highest Power SET Amplifier?

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