Steve, the OP already has a $12k cd player (not transport). He is a long standing customer of mine and I know his system well.
DACs using dual differential balanced designs - have to be balanced XLR out?
- Thread starter spiritofmusic
- Start date
Steve, the OP already has a $12k cd player (not transport). He is a long standing customer of mine and I know his system well.
Guys, I must admit to nativity in not being aware that the majority of dacs/cdps sound better/are designed for, balanced out.
My pre is single ended only, so I can’t even see if my cdp might be a step up going balanced out.
This is just giving me pause for thought. I’m not in any rush re this dac purchase, I’m just happy Sablon brought it to my attention ahead of me ordering, since I was blissfully unaware.
Thanks to you all for yr input.
My pre is single ended only, so I can’t even see if my cdp might be a step up going balanced out.
This is just giving me pause for thought. I’m not in any rush re this dac purchase, I’m just happy Sablon brought it to my attention ahead of me ordering, since I was blissfully unaware.
Thanks to you all for yr input.
Mark....Whilst I quite appreciate that you rather enjoy discussion generated by such Introspective Navel-Gazing, however my humble recommendation would be to cease dicking about considering frittering funds away on another flavour of digital to analoge reply, of which you are currently quite happy with, and concentrate your full Attention, Potential Travel/ Demo Time and said Funds on your final destination Vinyl front end, merely a thought.
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If I have read your other posts correctly, then, yes, the DAC employs a fully balanced architecture
Something that I am looking at too. While not from the same manufacturer, TotalDAC offers a balanced to single ended interconnect, using a transformer, which was designed to enable their d1-Dual, which is fully balanced, to be used with single ended amps. Whether that is as good as the Sablon interconnects is probably debatable.
Yep, dicking about and navel gazing.
Stops me leaving the house and getting into even worse habits
Stops me leaving the house and getting into even worse habits
Sure it has an spdif output (rca!) however OP wants to move into server land and would need a digital input to use the inbuilt dac section in lieu of buying a separate dac.
Oh, I missed that somehow.
In that case, I can recommend highly 2 great servers and one other solution:
1) Antipodes server from New Zealand - need a DAC with a good XMOS USB interface
2) Aurender N10 server - Need a DAC with a good XMOS USB interface
3) Ethernet renderer using Jriver or Roon and any computer - this is the path I am taking.
The reason that I have moved away from USB for my next generation is that there are simply too many hoops to jump through to achieve superb SQ with USB. Ethernet/network is simpler and more predictable. Less dependent on the computer and software.
#1 and #2 can also be converted to Ethernet or WIFI is you use a Sonore ultraRendu or microRendu.
http://www.sonore.us/index.html
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Have just discovered that my Eera Tentation despite having single ended and balanced sockets, originally was single ended only.
At least this means I know I’m getting the best out of it. And leaves me w the dilemma of finding a dac today that is best single ended. I’m struggling to find one. I won’t even consider going streaming until I sort this dilemma.
At least this means I know I’m getting the best out of it. And leaves me w the dilemma of finding a dac today that is best single ended. I’m struggling to find one. I won’t even consider going streaming until I sort this dilemma.
Finding a really good USB interface on ANY DAC is a challenge, SE or balanced IME. If you must use an off the shelf server, like Antipodes or Aurender N10, then maybe consider an outboard USB interface, like the Berkeley. Then you don't have to worry about the quality of the USB interface on the DAC, or if it even has one. I don't recommend running the S/PDIF directly from the server to the DAC if you want the best out of your DAC.
Again, I much prefer Ethernet/WIF interfaces to a server with USB. Then you only need a computer of any type that is connected to the network. Even better audio quality than USB. You can also get an Ethernet converter or "renderer", so the DAC does not need Ethernet input. Better if it has it built-in though.
Not sure what your budget is, but the DaVinci II is a winner at $31K.
I still think the answer is a good balanced DAC and a Final Drive. This way you get the SE output you need, the DAC sounds best and you eliminate a ground-loop.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Steve, thanks for the offer, but £4k for yr transformers plus a set of XLRs is not an expense I can envisage when I’m already pushed on the budget for dac and streamer.
Maybe at a later date.
This late piece of info re 99.999% of dacs decidedly superior balanced out, my inability to go balanced (except at inflated cost via seperate add-on transformers/XLRs) due to single ended-only preamp, and discovering my cdp is actually optimal as I use it ie single ended, is all meaning I’m passing on any steamer/dac option other than a v basic one, with a cheaper dac that I can hope to find is not poor single ended, eg the Kitsune Edition Holo Springs, and even if not ideal, I won’t have splashed the cash in making a big mistake).
Maybe at a later date.
This late piece of info re 99.999% of dacs decidedly superior balanced out, my inability to go balanced (except at inflated cost via seperate add-on transformers/XLRs) due to single ended-only preamp, and discovering my cdp is actually optimal as I use it ie single ended, is all meaning I’m passing on any steamer/dac option other than a v basic one, with a cheaper dac that I can hope to find is not poor single ended, eg the Kitsune Edition Holo Springs, and even if not ideal, I won’t have splashed the cash in making a big mistake).
IMHO, you're reading too much into it. Perhaps trying to justify NOT buying a DAC?
And FYI, the MSB Analog DAC is single-ended, and sounds better that way. The Reference and the SELECT have dedicated output modules for each kind, so they work the same no matter what connection is used.
cheers,
alex
And FYI, the MSB Analog DAC is single-ended, and sounds better that way. The Reference and the SELECT have dedicated output modules for each kind, so they work the same no matter what connection is used.
cheers,
alex
Oh Alex, I can always justify not buying audio gear.
It so happens I’m landed with a preamp that’s single ended only, and it appears nearly all dacs sound better balanced.
Tbh, you’re the only one here stating the difference is nothing to break sweat on.
I set up both of these related threads to test the water, and no one else is saying much else other than differences are significant.
I really can’t justify spending big on eg Formula if it’s plain that balanced out is the best way to listen to it.
But yes, guilty as charged, it is a current reason for me to hold off.
It so happens I’m landed with a preamp that’s single ended only, and it appears nearly all dacs sound better balanced.
Tbh, you’re the only one here stating the difference is nothing to break sweat on.
I set up both of these related threads to test the water, and no one else is saying much else other than differences are significant.
I really can’t justify spending big on eg Formula if it’s plain that balanced out is the best way to listen to it.
But yes, guilty as charged, it is a current reason for me to hold off.
The next best thing to a balanced input would be an unbalanced input fed from a transformer. A couple of Cinemags or Lundhals is going to be cheaper than a whole new pre.
For the record, I do agree with Ed that it'll be very preamp dependant. On the darTZeel integrated, the Formula worked better via the RCAs, while on the D'Agostino, it was better via XLR.
Opus, that’s pretty much what Steve of Empirical Audio is recommending re buying his Final Drive transformers.
A pair of these plus extra set of XLR interconnects doubles the cost of the interesting more affordable dac I was considering buying.
A pair of these plus extra set of XLR interconnects doubles the cost of the interesting more affordable dac I was considering buying.
I can't see a reason to shell out £4k though if all you're getting is a pair of line level transformers. Passably decent (by which I mean nickel cored) ones start around £12 each : https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.44.12630fd86iGddn&id=39991111619&ns=1&abbucket=2#detail
I tend to agree with Alex... you could be just ever so slightly caught up with the all or nothing syndrome that all of us audiophiles get suckered in to with only ever feeling comfortable when absolutely chasing the best. I had some of my other family around tonight and we had a complete buzz playing all sorts of music from Alabama Shakes through to Bach Oboe concerto, Cecile Mclorin Servant, Van Morrison, Phantom Limb, Brahms Cello and piano, Beethoven’s Emperor, Frantz Braun Frickt, DJ Kicks, and all streamed... and to be honest the rca and xlr connectors mean three parts of f all when you just can have any music there when you think about it.
Roon via Tidal was more the real basis of the fun. We took turns in DJing and the world was our oyster. In truth it would have done nothing to diminish the soul and fun that great music brings whether it was via single ended or balanced differential. Get the better, most musical inclined dac and don’t stress too much over how it’s wired up too much. Everything sounds fine when surfing the infinite joy of a truly wide wide world music catalogue. Sharing is always caring.
Roon via Tidal was more the real basis of the fun. We took turns in DJing and the world was our oyster. In truth it would have done nothing to diminish the soul and fun that great music brings whether it was via single ended or balanced differential. Get the better, most musical inclined dac and don’t stress too much over how it’s wired up too much. Everything sounds fine when surfing the infinite joy of a truly wide wide world music catalogue. Sharing is always caring.
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