Oil giant Shell bets on electric cars

GaryProtein · Oct 17, 2017

twitch said:
Bobby, I trust you do realize that 'all electric' is no where as 'green' as you think !

The biggest difference between the carbon footprint of the gasoline powered cars and electric cars is you don't see and smell the pollution of the electric cars as readily as the gas powered ones. The electricity has to come from somewhere.

NorthStar · Oct 17, 2017

Empirical Audio said:
Some of that sky us due to winds, but it is also wildfires.

I got to breath heavy wildfire smoke for 5 weeks this summer. Finally, the fire is out so we can breath again. No fun.

Steve N.

I hear you Steve, here for the last three years we also have that same health issue, due to forest fires.
This year was the worst, after last year and the year before. Simply put, it's getting more and more alarming year after year.
But we are not yet @ your level of five weeks stretch; on the island ashes falling from the red sky under the red sun and bad breathing air might last couple weeks or so, depending on where you are in the path of winds.

rockitman · Oct 17, 2017

Empirical Audio said:
You really don't have a clue, do you?

China has spent triple what the US has towards renewables. They have the largest installed base of solar collectors in the world. They have banned coal power plants around Beijing. They just announced that they are putting another $360B towards renewables. They have exceeded the commitments of the Paris accords. There are already over 600,000 electric vehicles on the roads in China, more buses than anywhere else.

India has committed to double their Paris Accords commitment to renewables.

Many countries already have laws that prohibit the sale of gas vehicles after 2030-2050.

The US is the only developed country where the government denies Climate Change. We are still the #2 emitter on the planet. There are only two developed countries not in the Paris Accords now, Syria and the US. It's embarrassing. Thanks to Trump and the GOP, we are a third-world country now.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Please...spare me your liberal hand jibe....The Paris agreement was **** and we would have paid in the bulk of the money to subsidize the largest polluters.. But I guess that is what liberals do best...spend other peoples money, like the parasites they are. Cheers !

NorthStar · Oct 17, 2017

Please, we don't mind mentioning the facts, and from all sources, and the leader's decisions...stay calm because I/we don't want this thread locked up.

It's about oil, Shell, gas, electric cars, atmosphere, the global joint effort towards a healthier planet.
It's not about polluting more to increase man's ego and powertrip and bank account, it's about real commitments for real people's health.

I know you all know what it means; no fight, no left or right, only what's right for all, the international community.

Thank you very much for your understanding. We're here to advance intelligently and diligently, with respect and true righteousness.

twitch · Oct 17, 2017

Empirical Audio said:
It takes time and money to change the direction of a big ship.

I understand that, but a 21% increase in coal (albeit met) is nothing to sneeze at.

They are moving in the right direction. The US is moving in the WRONG direction.

steve N.

not sure about that, one could argue we aren't moving fast enough but with regards to the use of coal for the generation of electricity we are moving at a very quick pace to replace it, faster than any other country.

NorthStar · Oct 17, 2017

Empirical Audio said:
The US is the only developed country where the government denies Climate Change. We are still the #2 emitter on the planet. There are only two developed countries not in the Paris Accords now, Syria and the US. It's embarrassing.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

You are right; Nicaragua will sign the Accord, which leaves Syria and the USA as the only two countries in the world on the other side of the Accord's wall. Even North Korea have signed the Accord.

Empirical Audio · Oct 17, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
sorry, I edited that out.

but I agree that in the US we caught things early enough to change things. and dedicated huge resources to do that. and the focus for those things continues to be strong here. we fight over nuances, sure.

while in China it was terrible, then it got worse, and then it got even worse. and now it's more in the hopeless category. and their feedback loop is non-exisitant. all those resources we put into sound environmental practices have lined the pockets of the Chinese Elite for decades.

$360b is peanuts compared to their problems.

Nuances?? The EPA just allowed a gold mining company to build a huge gold mine at the top of Bristol Bay, the largest salmon fishery in the world. The budget just introduced by the GOP includes opening up oil exploration all over Alaska. The Clean Power Plan was abolished. The US pulled out of the Paris Climate Accords. All mention of Climate Change was removed from the EPA websites. This is nothing but a conspiracy to give the oil, gas, mineral and coal companies free reign to do whatever they want, even on protected national park lands and other protected wilderness. The GOP has been owned by big oil and pharma for decades. The Koch bros control most everything from the EPA to the tax reduction legislation. It's a corrupt government and there is no doubt about it. Corrupted by money and the desire to be re-elected at any cost.

This country will soon be like China is now if we don't stop this: covered with strip mines, clear-cut of trees, choking pollution in cities and poisoned rivers and lakes. These actions are taking us backwards. The only thing protecting us now is the blue states that are taking action on the ground and taking the administration to court, as well as a few organizations like sierra club that are protesting. Look at what happened in Flint, MI. They still don't have safe water there.

Steve N.

Mike Lavigne · Oct 17, 2017

Empirical Audio said:
Nuances?? The EPA just allowed a gold mining company to build a huge gold mine at the top of Bristol Bay, the largest salmon fishery in the world. The budget just introduced by the GOP includes opening up oil exploration all over Alaska. The Clean Power Plan was abolished. The US pulled out of the Paris Climate Accords. All mention of Climate Change was removed from the EPA websites. This is nothing but a conspiracy to give the oil, gas, mineral and coal companies free reign to do whatever they want, even on protected national park lands and other protected wilderness. The GOP has been owned by big oil and pharma for decades. The Koch bros control most everything from the EPA to the tax reduction legislation. It's a corrupt government and there is no doubt about it. Corrupted by money and the desire to be re-elected at any cost.

This country will soon be like China is now if we don't stop this: covered with strip mines, clear-cut of trees, choking pollution in cities and poisoned rivers and lakes. These actions are taking us backwards. The only thing protecting us now is the blue states that are taking action on the ground and taking the administration to court, as well as a few organizations like sierra club that are protesting. Look at what happened in Flint, MI. They still don't have safe water there.

Steve N.

sigh.

NorthStar · Oct 17, 2017

GaryProtein said:
The biggest difference between the carbon footprint of the gasoline powered cars and electric cars is you don't see and smell the pollution of the electric cars as readily as the gas powered ones. The electricity has to come from somewhere.

A good scientific article Gary...to read till the very end.
¤ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/electric-cars-are-not-necessarily-clean/

The balance is in the overall planet's and human's health effects...hazardous global atmospheric gases.

NorthStar · Oct 17, 2017

...And deforestation of the rain forests is not helping the solution.

Empirical Audio · Oct 17, 2017

GaryProtein said:
The biggest difference between the carbon footprint of the gasoline powered cars and electric cars is you don't see and smell the pollution of the electric cars as readily as the gas powered ones. The electricity has to come from somewhere.

The electricity comes from Hydroelectric, solar, wind or if none of these is available, from solar roof tiles powering a Power Wall in your garage. We are WAY AHEAD of you on this. Not a valid argument anymore.

Even large-scale power systems in California now include battery farms that are charged by solar and wind during the day so they can provide power after dark or when the wind dies down. Many large corporations are totally self-sufficient for power now, off the grid.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

NorthStar · Oct 17, 2017

I agree, and the future will make all the difference for our children's children's survival.

GaryProtein · Oct 17, 2017

Empirical Audio said:
The electricity comes from Hydroelectric, solar, wind or if none of these is available, from solar roof tiles powering a Power Wall in your garage. We are WAY AHEAD of you on this. Not a valid argument anymore.

Even large-scale power systems in California now include battery farms that are charged by solar and wind during the day so they can provide power after dark or when the wind dies down. Many large corporations are totally self-sufficient for power now, off the grid.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

This may be the case where you are, but not near me.

I am not interested in making that investment. The cash flow on that is all wrong.

I hate to be brutally honest, but it isn't my problem.

Empirical Audio · Oct 17, 2017

GaryProtein said:
This may be the case where you are, but not near me.

I am not interested in making that investment. The cash flow on that is all wrong.

I hate to be brutally honest, but it isn't my problem.

The fate of the human race is everyones problem. It's your choice if you don't want to be part of the solution. Even replacing lights with LEDs is a good step. Everyone can do that.

Steve N.

twitch · Oct 17, 2017

GaryProtein said:
This may be the case where you are, but not near me.

I am not interested in making that investment. The cash flow on that is all wrong.

I hate to be brutally honest, but it isn't my problem.

so Gary, where does your electricity come from ? I'm pretty sure I know the answer but I'd like to hear from you .......

es347 · Oct 17, 2017

Empirical Audio said:
You really don't have a clue, do you?

China has spent triple what the US has towards renewables. They have the largest installed base of solar collectors in the world. They have banned coal power plants around Beijing. They just announced that they are putting another $360B towards renewables. They have exceeded the commitments of the Paris accords. There are already over 600,000 electric vehicles on the roads in China, more buses than anywhere else.

India has committed to double their Paris Accords commitment to renewables.

Many countries already have laws that prohibit the sale of gas vehicles after 2030-2050.

The US is the only developed country where the government denies Climate Change. We are still the #2 emitter on the planet. There are only two developed countries not in the Paris Accords now, Syria and the US. It's embarrassing. Thanks to Trump and the GOP, we are a third-world country now.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

..didn't I read somewhere that political posts would be deleted?

NorthStar · Oct 17, 2017

GaryProtein said:
I hate to be brutally honest, but it isn't my problem.

Lol Gary, of course not. Like Puerto Rico is no one's problem but their own.

We're 7.5 billion of us today. From that number take out all the bad apples; terrorists, ISIS, criminal killers and rapists, sadists, polluters, corrupters, losers, ...all that etc. jazz and put the rest, us all the good people, on paradise, Earth. Wouldn't be nice, all driving electric cars and breathing fresh pure air and drinking crystal clean water? :b

es347 · Oct 17, 2017

Empirical Audio said:
Could not agree more. The problem in the US is that people filter their news and are subjected and gullible to propaganda because they do this. They believed most of the propaganda posted by Russian operatives on Facebook and Twitter during the election. Many Trump voters only believe what Trump says because he has convinced them that all news is fake news unless it comes from Trumps mouth. The ones that do listen and watch the news, watch Fox or Breitbart, who will never be caught criticizing Trumps behavior, no matter how outrageous it is. Case in point, his response to Hurricane in Puerto Rico. You can bet that they made the Major of San Juan the bad guy/girl, when other networks considered her a hero.

The US is a surreal place now, where 30% of the population does not care if the President or the nation follows the Constitution. Most of these people are Confederates from the south. I don't trust my neighbors now or people I pass on the street. They might be Trump voters.

To elect Trump, one had to look the other way and ignore the lack of education, knowledge of US government, experience, professionalism, ethics, morals and the general narcissist tendencies. They elected a disgusting excuse for a human being, just to "upset things" in the government or to get one issue addressed. These are ignorant people that don't understand the importance of this role in the US and the world. I had no idea there were so many stupids here...

The damage Trump has caused already will take decades to undo. Much worse the G. W. Bush, who made most of the people of the Arab world our enemies.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

..hey pal you're entitled to your opinion but please take your progressive anger elsewhere. We get it...you hate Trump and you hate those who voted for him. You've made your point now kindly put a sock in it..

NorthStar · Oct 17, 2017

es347 said:
..didn't I read somewhere that political posts would be deleted?

Gavin, as long that it doesn't turn into an uncontrollable fight to the death like FOX news or CNN news, we're in good hands here. :b

I mean our mono block amplifiers and tubes and fuses are somehow related more or less to the economics of the political world, right.
But we don't make a big deal about it; we're too intelligent and know how to remain calm @ all times, right.

We're doing very good here so far, I'd say we are advancing in the right direction with a peaceful and educational discussion.
We are in check, we have the experience, the knowledge and the maturity.

The Paris Accord plays an important role on many subjects of world's protection and healthy future...including electric cars, oil companies and even the materials used in our audio component and loudspeakers. China is using less lead now, we use more gold and silver. Copper is in almost all our wires.
____

@Steve N., we are sensitive people, the president can stay in his presidential prison. :b
I'm positive here Steve. We can leave him out of this, we don't need him in our thread, we don't need any of them; we have ourselves to build a better world, with sweet music and less CO2 in the atmosphere. The time will come...soon...I am optimistic.

GaryProtein · Oct 17, 2017

twitch said:
so Gary, where does your electricity come from ? I'm pretty sure I know the answer but I'd like to hear from you .......

I looked it up.

The electricity from my power company comes from generators run by natural gas.

Empirical Audio said:
. . . . Even replacing lights with LEDs is a good step. Everyone can do that.

I replaced my incandescent lights with 5000-5500degK fluorescents 30 years ago and those with LEDs 7-8 years ago because I liked the high color temperature of the light (same as the sun) and the higher color rendering indices of high tech lighting. I hate incandescent light. It's dull, it's yellow. YUCK. Incandescent lamps are better than a candle, but not much. I guess you could say as far as lighting is concerned, I went green for all the wrong reasons. The only incandescent bulb left in my house is in my oven.

Oil giant Shell bets on electric cars

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