Testing and embracing Stacore

spiritofmusic · Dec 3, 2017

David, even the venerable tt is not free of skepticism of high end examples. I know a guy who settled on a modest Rega based system who resolutely claimed he heard no upstick on more expensive systems. He would put the AS and AF1 in the category you put pwr cables and our favourite new science/religion.
Not how I would hear it.
I’m reality Dave, it seems a kind of truism or self fulfilling prophecy that you’re an active/passive isoln skeptic, and your fave tt the AS is the least in need of these methods.

ddk · Dec 3, 2017

microstrip said:
David,

Great summary sentence. But you are spoiling the fun of the technical minded people who love to think and show they are understanding and predicting high-end sound with their science ...

Bandwidth is valuable

!
david

ddk · Dec 3, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
David, even the venerable tt is not free of skepticism of high end examples. I know a guy who settled on a modest Rega based system who resolutely claimed he heard no upstick on more expensive systems. He would put the AS and AF1 in the category you put pwr cables and our favourite new science/religion.
Not how I would hear it.
I’m reality Dave, it seems a kind of truism or self fulfilling prophecy that you’re an active/passive isoln skeptic, and your fave tt the AS is the least in need of these methods.

In this case you’re talking about skepticism due to lack of experience, not knowledge.

I’m not a skeptic of either passive or active isolation, it was some of what I read in the threads that I commented on.
david

spiritofmusic · Dec 3, 2017

I don’t think so.
I took him to hear Roksan, Linn, TW, refurbed Garrard. That’s a reasonable representation.

Tango · Dec 3, 2017

I have got to go back to school and study some more English.

spiritofmusic · Dec 3, 2017

Your English is just fine, Tang.
It’s a few of the members here for whom English is their first language, that are a bit, ahem, challenged.
LOL, just in case they’re reading this.

ddk · Dec 3, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
I don’t think so.
I took him to hear Roksan, Linn, TW, refurbed Garrard. That’s a reasonable representation.

Like I said, lack of experience.

david

spiritofmusic · Dec 3, 2017

Dave, you’re a guy with massive experience in the hobby, massive exposure to the most exotic gear, and uncompromising opinions. However, I have to take at face value my colleague who after multiple exposures to systems, and esp tts, many times “better” than his Rega 3, was adamant that the high end was a scam. If I could get a comment from him, it was that any perceived increased resolution, bass, soundstaging etc, were detriments to SQ, he liked the mashed up wall of sound he heard on his system.
Suffice to say, I strongly disagreed with him. But his attitude is replicated every time I hear of audiophiles who claim they can’t hear any worthwhile impvts investing in better cbls/pwr cords, dedicated spurs, room acoustics treatments, dedicated supports etc.

spiritofmusic · Dec 3, 2017

I’m finding the idea that mass loading Stacore mated to component via hard non compliant footers providing
1- an energy sink/drain/conduit for component-borne vibrations, and
2- an effective insulator against floor-borne vibrations
makes a lot of sense as a superior method of dealing with the complexities of vibration management in an audio system, borne out by the superior audible results in use.
My investigations beyond installing Stacores under all my gear will be the best form of those hard footers, ie either sticking with my Symposium Precision Couplers or going Stacore brand footers, and whether there’s any mileage to be had from mass loading the top of components with things like HRS Damping Plates, or other alternatives, in order to maximise coupling of component to Stacore via the footers, to further optimise the flow of vibrations out of the component, knowing that Stacore is comprehensively dealing with those vibns coming up from the floor.

Ron Resnick · Dec 3, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
Well Dave, you’d be horrified that the funds I’ve ploughed into cables, including nefarious power cords, ground boxes, and ongoing Stacores spend, equates to a lovely brand sparking new AF1 tt.
My only defense is that I’m not at Mike L’s level of uber tweak investment just yet.

Good idea! I would sell all tweaks except the isolation transformer and the Stacores and buy a used Air Force One from someone who is upgrading to AF1 Premium.

Ron Resnick · Dec 3, 2017

Stacore said:
Dear Ron,

1) Yes, within its physical capabilities

2) Prevent them, within its physical capabilities, from being propagated to the floor

3) Potentially yes, but much depends on how the component is coupled to the Sorbothane

Cheers,

Thank you, Jarek.

So since plain Sorbothane accomplishes all three of these objectives to some degree, is the argument for a passive isolation platform such as the Stacore Basic that the dedicated platform achieves these objectives to a greater degree?

spiritofmusic · Dec 3, 2017

Ron, just what do you think inspired that emotional reaction you had to my system, and your absolute delight in listening to music here? It wasn’t just the gear, or room. It was the careful optimisation of everything, tailored via balanced power, dedicated lines, grounding, superlative cables and pwr cords, specialist fuses, and vibn isolation.
No way would I entertain swapping this out for a down payment on an AF, really.

adyc · Dec 3, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
mass loading the top of components with things like HRS Damping Plates

Bricks and blu tak are cheaper alternative. But HRS damping plates certainly look nicer.

spiritofmusic · Dec 3, 2017

Hmm, top loading is good in theory. But I’ve heard reasonable skepticism that what makes up the loading can colour the final sound, and one can deaden things too much.

Ron Resnick · Dec 3, 2017

Marc, I was happy for you that you achieved the objective you had been working toward for a long, long time.

spiritofmusic · Dec 3, 2017

Ron, it’s surely a bit more than that. You were so intrigued and perplexed that cd could sound so good, and were so inquisitive as to how I achieved my result. I take that as a massive vote of confidence that not only is the tonal signature of my sound up to snuff, but also critically that what I’ve worked at, and spent big on, re maxxing optimisation, is absolutely the right choice of priorities. I am certain that had I stuck with domestic power circuit, cheap bell wire, Radio Shack power cords, beer crates LOL or a sideboard to place gear on, that your enjoyment would have been curtailed, and an AF would not perform to its best. Certainly you’d have found my digital to be nowhere near as compelling.
Your unequivocal thumbs up meant a lot to me.

Ron Resnick · Dec 3, 2017

Quite a bit of leading the witness here.

You made a huge, complicated, time-consuming, expensive, stressful, anxiety-producing bet on the attic location -- and you won! I was very proud of you, and happy for you, on that!

The room catapulted the sound into the league of what we all strive for: recreating the sound of an original musical experience with significant suspension of disbelief. That is what this new room allowed you to achieve. In the apartment the system sounded like we were listening to nice speakers on an expensive stereo system.

It is impossible to quantify what component or tweak represents what percentage of the improvement in your sound quality, or what percentage of the absolute magnitude of your sound quality. The equipment components were held constant, and the balanced power/isolation transformer was held constant, between the apartment and the house.

I have always believed that the room is the most important component, and my belief in that has only grown over time. This is a silly and invalid exercise but if you want me to try to quantify the significance of the new room versus the new tweaks (beyond the balanced power/isolation transformer which you also had in the apartment) I would say the room is responsible for 90% to 95% of the improvement.

Putting it differently, if you had added all of the new tweaks to the system in the apartment the system in the apartment still would have sounded merely like nice speakers in an expensive stereo system.

Marc, what can I tell you? Your hyperbolic (to me) written descriptions make me think that you are mis-quantifying the magnitude of improvement occasioned by the recent tweaks.

I am very flattered, and I appreciate, that my unequivocal thumbs up meant a lot to you. I was very relieved to hear from your system in the new room that I could give you that thumbs up totally honestly!

Stacore · Dec 3, 2017

Absolutely Ron. For example Sorbothane cannot cover very low frequencies. Only passive/active suspension can.

Ron Resnick said:
Thank you, Jarek.

So since plain Sorbothane accomplishes all three of these objectives to some degree, is the argument for a passive isolation platform such as the Stacore Basic that the dedicated platform achieves these objectives to a greater degree?

microstrip · Dec 3, 2017

Ron Resnick said:
Dear Jarek,

I understand you to be reporting that if you place a sheet of Sorbothane on a concrete floor and then place an audio component on the Sorbothane, the Sorbothane will absorb:

1) vibrations coming up through the floor towards the component, and

2) vibrations generated internally within the component and emanating from the component, and

3) vibrations coming from the component as a result of acoustic feedback impinging upon the component and vibrating the component?

The sheet of Sorbothane will convert the vibrations from all three sources into heat?

More than two decades most audiophiles went through a "Sorbothane phase" - we got lots of large and small Audioquest sorbothane feet and sheets and treated our systems abundantly. As far as I remember, in my case it was a real disaster - it robbed life and could make my system sound miserable. I still have a drawer full of sticky feet somewhere

. Later I read that Sorbothane conducts energy at some frequencies, absorbs at others, and stores and releases energy at other frequencies, and this could explain its uneven interaction with most electronic devices - not sure if it is the proper explanation.

Curiously the well hidden suspension of my excellent sounding Forsell turntable uses Audioquest Sorbothane feet between thick MDF, and Oracle also use Sorbothane to isolate the spring suspension of its turntables.

Ron Resnick · Dec 3, 2017

ddk said:
What problem? Anyone identify even one besides holding up 200+kg:b? This case is quite simple Tango is going with what makes sense to him Chris likes the tech and wants to Play.
. . .

And I am going with what makes sense to me: plain sturdy stand, but with ability to accomodate active isolation for possible future playing with tech.

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