Help me beat my CD Transport

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
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I’ll thank you for putting me right off streaming forever
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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I’ll thank you for putting me right off streaming forever

We can resist sometime, but not forever. A year ago the sound quality I was getting from a server was unsatisfying, my first word for it was almost always miserable. Now in some aspects it surpasses vinyl. As soon as I get access to Qobuz - not available in my country - I will surely optimize a system for streaming.

My attitude towards high end is pragmatic, not dogmatic. What matters most is sound quality and enjoyment, not old beliefs.
 

BMCG

VIP/Donor
Oct 1, 2016
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To the OP...

Easy,l

Get a PC with Linear power supplies with separated to all critical subsystems. then get either the Laufertek Memory player Software suite, or if you are more adventurous (and for cheaper, but only forum support), get Win Server 2016 with AudioOptimizer and Roon/HQP (Fidelizer Pro process lasso optional). In both cases you need to tweak the BIOS. Make sure to play back from internal SSDs with the latter and from the "slot"in the former.

Thank me later.
+1 on the “adventurous recommendations”
 

Al M.

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Sep 10, 2013
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I’ll thank you for putting me right off streaming forever

+1

This thread is again highly off-putting to me in terms of computer audio, since again it highlights all the complexities and details that need to be right to make computer audio work properly. So many pitfalls. Computer audio is clearly not a mature technology yet in the sense that it is plug-n'-play. And, regardless of what Steve N. or anyone else claims, I have yet to hear a computer audio system that is better and more resolving than my CD transport driving the DAC through a high-grade AES/EBU cable.
 

Al M.

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Sep 10, 2013
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My attitude towards high end is pragmatic, not dogmatic. What matters most is sound quality and enjoyment, not old beliefs.

Same here. Some may claim that computer audio measures better blah blah but I just don't hear the results. I don't care about the old beliefs from already more than 10 years ago that computer audio is measurably better than a transport, and thus automatically superior, if I just don't hear it. Regardless of what dogmatic file fundamentalists may be claiming. They just rely on the wrong measurements, apparently.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
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+1

This thread is again highly off-putting to me in terms of computer audio, since again it highlights all the complexities and details that need to be right to make computer audio work properly. So many pitfalls. Computer audio is clearly not a mature technology yet in the sense that it is plug-n'-play. And, regardless of what Steve N. or anyone else claims, I have yet to hear a computer audio system that is better and more resolving than my CD transport driving the DAC through a high-grade AES/EBU cable.

Northing in the high-end is plug and play, I do not expect that computer audio will ever be so. The essence of the high-end is fine tuning to our systems and preferences.

IMHO when we categorically say we have yet to hear something better it mostly means we have not listened to everything ... :)

For me it is a question of my priorities in my system. I feel that a SGM server, as used by Mike Lavigne, would sound significantly better than my current server. But considering the limited use I give to the computer system, I am postponing considering such experiences with expensive servers until they have a mature ethernet server ...
 

Al M.

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Sep 10, 2013
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IMHO when we categorically say we have yet to hear something better it mostly means we have not listened to everything ... :)

True certainly in my case, but my experiences so far are what I have to go by. I have no doubt that computer audio can be done right. Yet I am greatly put off by the hassle usually involved, and this thread again shows all the pitfalls and the fine details that have to be right, far too tedious for me. Again, those audiophiles who try to tell us that any old computer system will beat any transport, just based on questionable "jitter measurements", are unserious salesmen of snake oil. I just know better.

For me it is a question of my priorities in my system. I feel that a SGM server, as used by Mike Lavigne, would sound significantly better than my current server. But considering the limited use I give to the computer system, I am postponing considering such experiences with expensive servers until they have a mature ethernet server ...

The expensive server route would be my preferred way to go. I would be considering a Baetis server with AES/EBU output, would I want to venture into computer audio. More hassle-free, but not quite. You still have to get (the connection to) the external storage right...
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
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Great Pacific Northwest
www.empiricalaudio.com
+1

This thread is again highly off-putting to me in terms of computer audio, since again it highlights all the complexities and details that need to be right to make computer audio work properly. So many pitfalls. Computer audio is clearly not a mature technology yet in the sense that it is plug-n'-play. And, regardless of what Steve N. or anyone else claims, I have yet to hear a computer audio system that is better and more resolving than my CD transport driving the DAC through a high-grade AES/EBU cable.

How many high-end shows have you attended?

If you notice, the vast majority of rooms use computer audio of some sort. A few spin vinyl. Very few use a CD player anymore.

You just have not heard decent computer audio yet. Get a Sony HAP-z1es and get your feet wet. Simple to operate and load up with music.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
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How many high-end shows have you attended?

If you notice, the vast majority of rooms use computer audio of some sort.

Yup, and the vast majority of rooms also don't sound particularly good, or with highly resolved sound.

You just have not heard decent computer audio yet. Get a Sony HAP-z1es and get your feet wet. Simple to operate and load up with music.

Great, and no output to external DAC. No, thanks.
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
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Again, those audiophiles who try to tell us that any old computer system will beat any transport, just based on questionable "jitter measurements", are unserious salesmen of snake oil. I just know better.

Really? Well what about these people:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154039.msg1651590#msg1651590

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154039.msg1655541#msg1655541

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154039.msg1658094#msg1658094

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105049.msg1200553#msg1200553

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105049.msg1159717#msg1159717

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=95464#msg960567

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154039.msg1661720#msg1661720

It's not computer audio that is the problem. It's the equipment and vendors you are trying.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 
Last edited:

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
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Yup, and the vast majority of rooms also don't sound particularly good, or with highly resolved sound.



Great, and no output to external DAC. No, thanks.

Okay, then get a Bluesound and add a Synchro-Mesh reclocker.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Al M.

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Sep 10, 2013
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You must have missed the part where I was saying "any old computer system". Also, who knows how good those transports compared to were.


It's not computer audio that is the problem. It's the equipment and vendors you are trying.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

You must have missed the part where I said "I have no doubt that computer audio can be done right."
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
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You must have missed the part where I was saying "any old computer system". Also, who knows how good those transports compared to were.




You must have missed the part where I said "I have no doubt that computer audio can be done right."

I guess so...

My point is that either the transport or the music server can sound excellent and have low jitter. Jitter is literally the ONLY consideration in a transport or a music server driving a DAC, assuming that they don't change the data. If they are both playing 44.1 tracks using the same S/PDIF cable and have the same jitter, the transport will sound identical to the music server.

If one wants to stick with a transport and is happy with 44.1, then just add a reclocker to get low jitter.

If one wants hi-res playback, then get a server or make a computer your server and add a reclocker to get low jitter.

If you want to play hi-res DSD disks with low jitter, then you must spend the big bux on a CD player.

If you want to play DSD with a server with low jitter, then you must spend a lot more as well.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
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I guess so...

My point is that either the transport or the music server can sound excellent and have low jitter. Jitter is literally the ONLY consideration in a transport or a music server driving a DAC, assuming that they don't change the data. If they are both playing 44.1 tracks using the same S/PDIF cable and have the same jitter, the transport will sound identical to the music server.

If one wants to stick with a transport and is happy with 44.1, then just add a reclocker to get low jitter.

If one wants hi-res playback, then get a server or make a computer your server and add a reclocker to get low jitter.

If you want to play hi-res DSD disks with low jitter, then you must spend the big bux on a CD player.

If you want to play DSD with a server with low jitter, then you must spend a lot more as well.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

That sounds reasonable, thanks Steve.
Al
 

audio.bill

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2013
547
79
340
Chicago suburbs
Great, and no output to external DAC. No, thanks.
Actually the Sony HAP-Z1ES had a firmware update quite a while ago which added support for its USB output to connect to an external DAC. At the same time they added support for a USB hub so that you can connect any combination of an external HD, DAC, and CDROM drive (for direct ripping) simultaneously.
 

BMCG

VIP/Donor
Oct 1, 2016
234
41
133
United Kingdom
True certainly in my case, but my experiences so far are what I have to go by. I have no doubt that computer audio can be done right. Yet I am greatly put off by the hassle usually involved, and this thread again shows all the pitfalls and the fine details that have to be right, far too tedious for me. Again, those audiophiles who try to tell us that any old computer system will beat any transport, just based on questionable "jitter measurements", are unserious salesmen of snake oil. I just know better.



The expensive server route would be my preferred way to go. I would be considering a Baetis server with AES/EBU output, would I want to venture into computer audio. More hassle-free, but not quite. You still have to get (the connection to) the external storage right...

Curiously symmetrical to the reasons why I avoid vinyl.....

I know vinyl can be sublime....and that temptation musters a doleful interest

but the prospective tedium of getting there ( ymmv) renders the path one for others...not me.
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
1,169
207
150
Great Pacific Northwest
www.empiricalaudio.com
You must have missed the part where I was saying "any old computer system".

I use such a system. Just a Mac Mini, and an old one at that, 2009. When using Ethernet, it doesn't matter. All that matters is the quality of the DLNA endpoint and I have that optimized. I'm not even using an Ethernet DAC right now. My DLNA endpoint drives my DAC using S/PDIF coax. 18psec of jitter, so it is very live.

Computer audio is not somehow more complicated than a CD transport. Even using a standard computer, it is a piece of cake. Just start-up Jriver and play music from your playlists. You can even stream Tidal and hear CD-quality tracks all day long in any genre you want with no advertisements. Much better than FM radio or slacker or other streaming services. This is how you get exposed to new music and get high-quality at the same time. I can even sample tracks through the system from Amazon or HDtracks before buying a new CD to rip or downloading a new album. How else can you play remastered 24/176.4 album of Rolling Stones "Let it Bleed"?

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Al M.

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Sep 10, 2013
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Curiously symmetrical to the reasons why I avoid vinyl.....

I know vinyl can be sublime....and that temptation musters a doleful interest

but the prospective tedium of getting there ( ymmv) renders the path one for others...not me.

Same here. Vinyl can be extremely good, and I enjoy it. However, there is so much to adjust, optimize and tweak...I'll leave that to others, and enjoy their systems ;)

Also, the cost is prohibitive to me, both in terms of hardware and software (I have no vinyl collection). In order to get analog that equals or surpasses my digital I would have to spend multiples of what I spent on my digital, and I rather put the money into optimal resolution of the system to do justice to the unexpectedly impressive capabilities of my digital. Which I recently did, with new speakers (Reference 3A Reflector), a new amp (Octave R320) and new subs (JL Audio Fathom 112v2).
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
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Congratulations Al!
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
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Congratulations Al!

Thanks, Ack! Once everything has arrived and is settled I'll have you over. Speakers are here, and I have already heard them with the Octave amp (Goodwin's demo unit). Amp and subwoofers are ordered, as well as new needed cables (ZenWave Audio, from WBF member DaveC) and a second ASC sub trap.
 

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