Is the Acoustical Systems Axiom Tonearm the Modern Fidelity Research or Ikeda?

shakti said:

after some days of music I changed to the Etsuro Gold, which was fitted before into the Ikeda 407 (old matt solid steel armwand version). This was then a kind of "über and beyond" shock. My expectations were high, as the Gold was performing nicely in the Ikeda 407, but the Axiom was so much better in all aspects The music was more integrated, more easy to follow, the level of details has increase, but not in pushing the details into your face, more in a soft and elegant way, if you are not looking for the details, they disappear as parts of a natural, authentic music reproduction.

My wife and myself love records with female voices, we hear a lot of the old Clannad music together. Listening to the nearly 40 years old live record (the white one with the red letters) was like joining a concert. Clannad were that time on a tour in Germany, which I visited (not the exact concert of the record, but the same tour) and I was never so close to the concert feeling before.

Click to expand...

i recall that 'jump' to my first Etsuro Gold. it was a kind of "uber and beyond" shock for me too.

Ron Resnick said:

Thank you, shakti, for this very interesting comparative report!

Since I personally care most about vocals, I am trying to trace through your report your comparative analysis on vocals. Is it correct that for vocals your favorite combination was Etsuro Gold on Axiom?

And with this combination, and I am interpreting what you posted, the Axiom increased detail which improved the suspension of disbelief, but the combination overall remained the most natural sounding and realistic?

Did you hear any tilting up of tonal balance or slightly greater presence range or high frequency emphasis along with this increase in detail?

Was this the combination that sounded with vocals the most in-the-room "real"?

Which combination most emphasized sibilance on vocals?

Thank you!

Click to expand...

On vocals Etsuro Gold and Axiom are a great combination in my set up. As described in the Etsuro Gold thread, the Gold has a wide range of good performance. But with the Axiom it is more easy to find the best performance of the Gold. In average every matching cartridge can sound better in the Axiom, as most likely the Cartridge gets adjusted to the best possible level.

I personally do not like the super modern sound of ceramic tweeter analytic behaviors, as it disturbs my understanding of "natural" and "coherent" or "authentic", as this version of details does not have really more information, it just shifts the tonal focus to the tweeter with "wrong" balanced details.

The Gold / Axiom combination continues to play harmonic, smooth, maybe the traditional Japanese way of energy distribution over the frequency band. The Axiom / Gold gives me the impression, that I listen to a more modern and better Koetsu stone body and the related emotional vocal reproduction .

A Koetsu coralstone can connect you emotionally to the music, specially to the vocals, but lacks a lot of information & details. The Axiom / Gold will connect you as well, but provides you with the information & details you expect from such a premium cart nowadays.

not problems on sibilance at all.

What is the dynamic compliance of the Etsuro Gold? I've always been an admirer of the Axiom, but even in fixed mount, the lack of compatibility (due to high mass) with a wide swath of excellent cartridges was a non-starter. Etsuro doesn't seem to spec dynamic compliance. Opus 1 is 8, but I'd assume the general rule with Japanese carts applies, making it 16ish at 10Hz? Anyhow, it'd be useful to know if the Gold is one of the few non-SPUs that is generally a match for these seemingly excellent higher mass arms.

I never found any information regarding Etsuro compliance. So I did trial and error with my Etsuro Cobalt blue, finding out, that I prefer it in more heavy arms, not doing any measurement. Axiom was developed from a person (D Brakemeier), who still likes the FR64s and FR66s tonearm, so obviously the Axiom is in the high effective mass range.

And finally I like the Gold in this arm. May be I will find in the future a tonearm, which will fit even better, but so far and to my knowledge, I like this pairing. As my MSL siblings (Hayabusa, Sumile, Platinum) all liked the heavier tonearms too, there is for me enough choice of cartridges to use with the Axiom.

The Acoustical Systems Aquilar 10" has only 11g effective mass, maybe I will get this arm too, to have a better chance to listen to my higher compliance cartridges.

Have you tried Palladian in the Axiom? I've seen it described in similar-to-EtsuroGold fashion.

Also, maybe I missed it, but did you try Hyperion in Axiom too?

Hyperion in Axiom will happen, but I could not wait to have the Gold in the Axiom.

As my Axiom is the fixed headshell Version , I cannot change so fast as I like.

I had Hyperion and Gold comparison in the Ikeda 407 tonearm, so I have an idea about the different characters.

The Palladian and the Opus 1 are in my wishlist, more years to come

The compliance of the Etsuro Gold is never officially published but is around 11×10-6cm/dyne I have had very good results in the Axiom and Axiom anniversary.

108CY said:

The compliance of the Etsuro Gold is never officially published but is around 11×10-6cm/dyne I have had very good results in the Axiom and Axiom anniversary.

Click to expand...

Mik, do you always use UNI-DIN with the Axiom?

bazelio said:

Mik, do you always use UNI-DIN with the Axiom?

Click to expand...

I do like like the Axiom in majority of cases with the uni din there are a few cartridges I may not use it with.

shakti said:

I never found any information regarding Etsuro compliance. So I did trial and error with my Etsuro Cobalt blue, finding out, that I prefer it in more heavy arms, not doing any measurement. Axiom was developed from a person (D Brakemeier), who still likes the FR64s and FR66s tonearm, so obviously the Axiom is in the high effective mass range.

And finally I like the Gold in this arm. May be I will find in the future a tonearm, which will fit even better, but so far and to my knowledge, I like this pairing. As my MSL siblings (Hayabusa, Sumile, Platinum) all liked the heavier tonearms too, there is for me enough choice of cartridges to use with the Axiom.

The Acoustical Systems Aquilar 10" has only 11g effective mass, maybe I will get this arm too, to have a better chance to listen to my higher compliance cartridges.

Click to expand...

The MSL Plat does not necessary like a heavier arm. Both MSL Plat and Opus1 (the sibling) can be used with a lighter arm effectively. The MSL Plat even worked great on light carbon Black Beauty arm. The Palladium looks cool but sounds rather uninteresting. All three carts could sound better on my other arms than the Axiom. Dietrich came to my place and installed the Palladium on the Axiom himself. I have lived and played quite extensively with the three carts and the Axiom for three years. The Opus1 sounds a bit slower than the MSL but if you have two arms of the same type in your system, listen extensively over a period of time say two years you will know which one to keep if need to let go two.

@Tango how would you compare Axiom and SAT?

bazelio said:

@Tango how would you compare Axiom and SAT?

Click to expand...

Axiom adds mid and down. SAT and 3012R don't. SAT is more articulate and never un-musical. I have a sense that both Axiom and SAT try to "manage" energy and musical info all the time. I feel SAT sounded more open with clearer air than the Axiom. I never felt I heard anything more from Axiom. With SAT you definitely get the sense you hear more from the groove. To hear the difference well the rest of your system must not lean toward constant pleasant-to-the-ear mids and rock-n-roll bass. SAT is hard to beat and I have not found any cart that don't perform well on SAT. I thought the Coralstone and Palladian would do better (best?) on Axiom. Guess what they sounded better on SAT. But Dietrich has been very nice to me so I will stop writing. Is Axiom a good arm? Yes. It is also cheaper and D gives excellent service.

I have no experience with the super expensive new ones.

Palladian and Palladian on the axiom is one of the most boring lifeless combinations I have heard. Heard it in three systems including two compares. The GFS on the Axiom at Tang's was very good

bonzo75 said:

Palladian and Palladian on the axiom is one of the most boring lifeless combinations I have heard. Heard it in three systems including two compares

Click to expand...

I could give you a lesson in diplomatic talk Bonzo.

Ron Resnick said:

Hello shakti,

Are you able to describe for us please a cartridge-to-cartridge comparison of the sound of the MSL Signature Platinum to the sound of the Etsuro Gold?

Thank you.

Click to expand...

If you like the MSL Signature Platinum, you will like the Etsuro Gold while listening, both follow for me the sophisticated Japanese way of Music reproduction. The Gold is more open, tonal balance (from my memory) is more like Sumile than Signature Platinum. In Germany the MSL Signature Platinum is close to half of the price of the Gold. From there, the MSL has an excellent value for the performance delivered.

Tango said:

Axiom adds mid and down. SAT and 3012R don't. SAT is more articulate and never un-musical. I have a sense that both Axiom and SAT try to "manage" energy and musical info all the time. I feel SAT sounded more open with clearer air than the Axiom. I never felt I heard anything more from Axiom. With SAT you definitely get the sense you hear more from the groove. To hear the difference well the rest of your system must not lean toward constant pleasant-to-the-ear mids and rock-n-roll bass. SAT is hard to beat and I have not found any cart that don't perform well on SAT. I thought the Coralstone and Palladian would do better (best?) on Axiom. Guess what they sounded better on SAT. But Dietrich has been very nice to me so I will stop writing. Is Axiom a good arm? Yes. It is also cheaper and D gives excellent service.

I have no experience with the super expensive new ones.

Click to expand...

I tried the Axiom on different tonearmbases and followed Dietrichs advice to go for the gunmetal version.
Alloy in comparison was "slower" and the bass/midbass area had a little up.

In my personal set up:
The Axiom plus Gunmetal base has a similar tonal balance as Glanz MH-124S with alloy base.
The Axiom is a little darker than Fidelity Research FR64 s (silverwire) on Gunmetal base.
The Axiom is brighter (and more neutral) than current production Ikeda CR 407 on alloy base

Which material have you chosen for your Axiom Tonearm bases to get your findings?

And thank you for the SAT comparison, one more nice tonearm to look for.

I have the Axiom Anniversary, the Axiom and will be getting the Titan and various Guises of the Sat,and tried them on numerous turntables with a all manner of cartridges. Drawing definitive conclusions on one or the other can be often misleading and it is fraught with difficulties and there are many variables, partnering turntables and cartridges and even down arm board material have a specific role to play in this as does arm cable then one has to consider the interaction with a particular phono stage. To say one has heard each and every combination would be crazy as there is never a end to any of it.

I have enjoyed both arms in various combinations of turntable and cartridge I have always had to optimise thing persistently with armboard choice and choosing the correct cable or sometimes add a cable onto an existing cable before I can make some sort of conclusion to what I actually prefer. One can hear differences in everything from the choice of conductor to diameter widths and insulating materials in cables and some arms show this up even more so. This pursuit can be rather daunting and frustrating to say the least.

I have the Axiom Anniversary sounding superb on blue pearl with Ikeda 9 Gss for example there is a synergy going on that is magical I found the best arm board was a combination brass copper and stainless. While the Sat hated the same turntable and cartridge and I found it worked much better with the Etsuro Gold and the and a pure copper arm board for example also the same construction of arm lead never worked on the Sat as the Axiom. I actually loved the Sat when I got it working on a Thorens reference it was a superb combination with great the speed and articulation of the Sat seemed to work really well I did find I had to spend particular attention to the particular arm cable and have a few different arm boards made before things really gelled. This analogue malarky is serious hard work that's why people like me drive oneself self potty with lots of boxes every where trying to get things working optimally again that comes down to my personal preference and what I like and I respect others valued opinions at all times. At the end of of the day its all a bit of fun. I have stupidly on occasion dismissed a tonearms potential and packed it away and after a few years taken it out and tried it with another combination only to find the magic.

I am only a user of a standard offering of an equipment. The material of arm base, titanium screw, internal wire, etc to be used were provIded by the designer or a vendor of the arm knowing what tt it will be on. So I used what the designer or the vender thought was appropriate or at least not acting detrimentally to the sound. The opinion I gave was just a data point from an actual user for over a few years time. I also encourage people who are interested on any equipment to look into as many datapoint as possible. Study the system of the person who makes comment. Study he who makes comment too.