Vtl 750

glabach

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Apr 28, 2011
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I am good frinds with Don and I like to listen even louder then he does. In fact, he complains that I want to turn up his woofer towers too much. He likes a flat accurate sound. I like to energize and pressurize the room more. In fact for me unless the room is responding to the system--like a live event-I am bored.

Many reviewers who have heard the Sigfrieds and the 750s prefer the sound of the 750s though they do not say so in print. I think the new amps have an over emphasis on user friendlyiness (like a Lexus) rather then flat out performance. The internal digital diagnostics system cannot help the sound. Finally, another renowed designer told me that VTL now attempts to regulate the B plus power supply with a solid state regulator. He told me he had tried this many times and always got a more solid state sound. So stick with your 750s

Fremer's review of the 450s suggest to me that the new amps are moving more into the accuracy solid state sound--which Fremer prefers--and have given up something in the magical midrange.

I spoke to Fremer about this but he no comments. But his review of the 450s is so well written and hopefully you can read between the lines. The amp I think moved to Stereoplhile Class A section.

Absolute sound gets so much add copy from VTL they would never say a bad thing about their amps so their reviews are meaningless--as we all know.

If you can believe this I know of a few people buy Ken Steven's new Statement Amps that made a big splash at CES. Vanderstein was raving about them saying he never heard his speakers sound as good.

These to me are the exact opposite of the VTL 750s in that they are high performance, balls to the walls amps with exotic parts.

They are completley different tonally and in their presentation and I can respect one person perferring one over the other.

by the way I just joined the site and hope my voice will be heard.
 

caesar

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May 30, 2010
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I am good frinds with Don and I like to listen even louder then he does. In fact, he complains that I want to turn up his woofer towers too much. He likes a flat accurate sound. I like to energize and pressurize the room more. In fact for me unless the room is responding to the system--like a live event-I am bored.

Many reviewers who have heard the Sigfrieds and the 750s prefer the sound of the 750s though they do not say so in print. I think the new amps have an over emphasis on user friendlyiness (like a Lexus) rather then flat out performance. The internal digital diagnostics system cannot help the sound. Finally, another renowed designer told me that VTL now attempts to regulate the B plus power supply with a solid state regulator. He told me he had tried this many times and always got a more solid state sound. So stick with your 750s

Fremer's review of the 450s suggest to me that the new amps are moving more into the accuracy solid state sound--which Fremer prefers--and have given up something in the magical midrange.

I spoke to Fremer about this but he no comments. But his review of the 450s is so well written and hopefully you can read between the lines. The amp I think moved to Stereoplhile Class A section.

Absolute sound gets so much add copy from VTL they would never say a bad thing about their amps so their reviews are meaningless--as we all know.

Great perspective, Glabach. VTL moved toward "solid state accuracy" territory with their 7.5 preamp a while back (because their amps were more tube like???), so your comments about their amps moving in the same direction are very interesting. Not that VTL amps sound "gooey-toobey", but I wonder if the Audio Research's sonic signature shift toward the less "toobey" / more "neutral" sound is pushing the other tube companies in that direction. (The latest high end CJ stuff and the high end BAT stuff are more neutral also.) With the Audio research 610 having been proclaimed the greatest amp of all time by TAS, I do not see this trend changing.

I do imagine that if there was no Siegfried and the 750's (and Wotans) were updated, they would sound similar to what they are today, but just convey more musical detail. But VTL figured that folks paying $50K just for their amps are probably lazy...


As for Fremer, he has reviewed the VTL 450's in the past and they have always been highly praised, and made it onto their A list.
 

caesar

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May 30, 2010
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Absolute sound gets so much add copy from VTL they would never say a bad thing about their amps so their reviews are meaningless--as we all know.

HP and Jacob Heilbrunn like VTL. Valin comes across as the PR man for ARC. Harley is an ARC man also. The parties do not diiscuss the comparisons between the brands in print.
 

glabach

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Apr 28, 2011
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I have no idea whether HP and Jacob Heilbrunn like VTL because they would never say so if they didn't. Valin enjoys having ARC gear in his rig for free. Valin's review are pure PR. He always says all of the perceived faults of the products and I think he does a great job with that. But then he suggests that all of these weaknesses have been eliminated. Bullshit. They still exist in varying degrees.

AR wants very quiet gear so they use fet inputs instead of tube inputs even though this causes compression in the input stage. They put a whole bunch of small caps together in the power supply to lower impedance of the supply but then the system sounds pitched into the upper midrange. I have heard the new anniversary preamp and it is very "high defintion" . If uses teflon caps to bleach out the sound and make it so airy that you can see through the female vocalit clothes--but she has no balls, which is good for a female singer but not so so good for a male.

They are trading body for transparency. Its like trading a girl's face for her body--which is a bad trade off in the long run.

Neverthless the new AR gear sets new standards for transparency and it is very very far from any tubiness--or midrange magic I would add.
 

glabach

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Apr 28, 2011
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Ceaser if you come to LA I can take you on a tour of the mega systems. Mine is not one of them. I also have friends in San Fran area.
 

caesar

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May 30, 2010
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Ceaser if you come to LA I can take you on a tour of the mega systems. Mine is not one of them. I also have friends in San Fran area.

Thank you so much for the offer. I have a 5 month old now and have a hard time escaping to the gym for 2 hours. One day...I would love it!
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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(...) Neverthless the new AR gear sets new standards for transparency and it is very very far from any tubiness--or midrange magic I would add.

I own VTL MB750s with an ARC tube preamplfier and ARC tube CD player. I have listened several time to a similar system having an ARC REF610T, and currently have a REF110 at home. And the ARC power amps really have midrange magic - perhaps even more than the VTL due to the system synergy between all ARC units. Although I really like the VTL, if it was not for the excessive heat and tube longevity, the REF610T would be my choice.
 

caesar

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May 30, 2010
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I own VTL MB750s with an ARC tube preamplfier and ARC tube CD player. I have listened several time to a similar system having an ARC REF610T, and currently have a REF110 at home. And the ARC power amps really have midrange magic - perhaps even more than the VTL due to the system synergy between all ARC units. Although I really like the VTL, if it was not for the excessive heat and tube longevity, the REF610T would be my choice.

Microstrip, have you tried the 7.5 preamplifier for VTL synergy?
 

microstrip

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Microstrip, have you tried the 7.5 preamplifier for VTL synergy?

Caesar,

No - I am very happy with the ARC. A friend of mine has a 7.5 mk 1, and it sounds great in his system. But I have nerver listened to the mk2 or the new mk3.
 

glabach

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Apr 28, 2011
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My friend has the new ARC anniversary preamp. Intially, the sound was very thin and airy and not satisfying. But it was so transpartent and imaged like crazy, he tried to bring it around. He has done some mods to incease the body and improve the lower midrange. With the Anniversary driving the LAMM 18 watt tube amps he has the most transparent system I have ever heard and it is becoming more musically satisfying. The preamp though is defintely on the thin side of neutral. The huge teflon output caps make the cleanest highs on the universe but I suspect they rob the midrange of some body. ARC went from polyprops to teflon in this preamp, price of caps went way up, and they can now brag and they have the most transparent tube preamp on the planet and I would have to agree.
 

microstrip

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My friend has the new ARC anniversary preamp. (...)

I also own an Anniversary, and I understand your comments - the Anniversary is not a topical tube preampliifer, as for example, it does not have the added warmth of many tubed units.
However I will not consider it thin or lacking "body". My speakers - the big Soundlabs electrostatics can sound thin with some equipment, but I never noticed any problem with the Anniversary in this zone. However, for example, if someone is used to the old ARC Ref2, it will sound less full bodied. Also, my experience with the Anniversary is exclusively in balanced mode, your friend is using it with in unbalanced mode.
Can I ask you what speakers he is using? I am currently looking such solutions .
 

glabach

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Apr 28, 2011
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He is using Shun Mook speakers in unbalanced mode

I don't know how much this changes the basic character of the sound but I realize that ARC is commited to balanced everything.

I would hope you are using tubes on the Soundlabs because I have never heard them sound good on solid state amps.

Although you suggest, as do the reviewers, that the new ARC gear is moving closer to perfection by getting rid of the tubey sound, I would suggest that they are losing some of the midrange magic, warmth and relaxedness that drove music lovers away from CD's and solid state amps.

I am glad that you do not hear any lack of body in your system. This is fantastic.

But I am sure if you heard my system, you would say it has too much body, she is too warm, and her ass sticks (excsssive bass) out more than her tits. But there is no doubt that the skinny as a rail, ARC Victoria secret blond is very, very hot until she takes her clothes off and then you realize she has no ass or tits. All the reviewers tap their feet and nod their heads. But I have never heard an ARC based system boogie or make a woman spontaneously dance.
 

c1ferrari

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 15, 2010
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Well...

I must unequivocally declare I have never read a post quite like that! ;)
 

caesar

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May 30, 2010
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I was told by the importer that SED (St. Petersburg) moved their production equipment or location, that part was not clear. I am well aware of the Svetlana / SED name debacle and have posted on that topic for several years.

I don’t know if the reason given contributed to the lack of tubes all those months but it sure dd not help to wait and then face such a steep price increase.

In a discussion by phone with VTL I was told that both the SED and Gold Lion where acceptable choices. I'll post comments about any performance differences when I do the test.

Anyone else who's compared these tubes in VTL or other high quality amps, your comments would be welcome and appreciated.


Albert, have you had a chance to compare? Thanks
 

nickbojko

New Member
Dec 15, 2011
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getting back to replacing the 12at7,i have tried them all and siemens ecc81/12at7 any version will surprise you how real and accurate they sound,tele don't hold a candle to them,second would be valvo ecc81,third tung sol 12at7 from 50's to 60's.the 6350 sylvania is king followed by ge them rca,sylvania made them for a lot of the computer companies,remington rand,etc.once you try the siemens ecc81 you wont go back!!!!!!!
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Dear glabach,

I would love to hear "mega systems" in LA!

PS: I have VTL MB-750s.
 

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