I said I would never buy another Turntable...Argh !!!

spiritofmusic · Sep 24, 2017

So, it's on the margins of impossible for a designer to go to a high tech, aerospace, etc, company, and commission a motor that can
1- sufficiently drive a 200lb platter, and
2- do it to let's say +/- 0.05% speed accuracy, and
3- achieve this w close to zero noise transmission?

It can't be done w the motors we potentially have available today?
Really?

rockitman · Sep 24, 2017

Thank you for that...

microstrip said:
Fortunately the patents on air bearing turntables are now expired and this technology is now free domain. See this image of one of the first patent I could locate on air bearing floating turntable platters (1963). Peter Forsell could not patent his turntable , but managed to patent its use in the flywheel, as no one else though about it before!

As far as I can imagine the AS2000 does not have a classical spindle - probably it uses a self centering conical air bearing system - one of the possibilities created by the very high mass platter.

spiritofmusic · Sep 24, 2017

The Verdier Magnum looks plenty crazy, possibly the only other contender to rival the AS-2000.
Solid granite base, oversized 20" diameter platter, air bearing hydraulics, 3 motor high torque, integrated "work bench" style stand.
6 months order to delivery, £95k.
For those who are too late to get the AS-2000, this is yr next best bet.
I don't think my 18x48 suspended timber roof loft space listening room floor is going to take it!
Or the AS.
Shucks, I'm gonna have to consider mere mortal alternatives.
But for those w the floors and houses to take these Big Boys, I can't begin to imagine the playback performance potential.

Audiophile Bill · Sep 24, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
So, it's on the margins of impossible for a designer to go to a high tech, aerospace, etc, company, and commission a motor that can
1- sufficiently drive a 200lb platter, and
2- do it to let's say +/- 0.05% speed accuracy, and
3- achieve this w close to zero noise transmission?

It can't be done w the motors we potentially have available today?
Really?

If we can send a probe to Enceladus and send photos back then I think we can manage this

rockitman · Sep 24, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
The AFZero will have loads more "tech" than the AS.
Here's betting it's loads more Moohlah than the AS too.
I know which one I'd want.

The AF zero is suppose to cost in the $300K range....The AS is cheap date in comparison w/o all the nagging tech that may at some point need repair/replacement...There is less to go wrong with the AS and service will be state side which is a huge advantage from a shipping standpoint should something in the motor or controller need fixing.

spiritofmusic · Sep 24, 2017

Bill, I'm not sure.
I'm reliably informed the current MD of Mercedes tears his hair out that he can't replicate the bulletproof reliability of cars from his 80s heritage and provenance, in the poor run of current new millennium models.
He's been threatening to get engineers retired in their 70s-90s back in the lab.
That's a serious story, no joke.

Audiophile Bill · Sep 24, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
Bill, I'm not sure.
I'm reliably informed the current MD of Mercedes tears his hair out that he can't replicate the bulletproof reliability of cars from his 80s heritage and provenance, in the poor run of current new millennium models.
He's been threatening to get engineers retired in their 70s-90s back in the lab.
That's a serious story, no joke.

Nothing to do with our ability but markets, shareholders and profits I'm afraid

spiritofmusic · Sep 24, 2017

Christian, AFZero $300k?
Joke!
Instead, I'll buy the Verdier Magnum for $100k.
And build a room for it in my garden for the remaining $200k.

Mike Lavigne · Sep 24, 2017

Steve Williams said:
not necessarily Mike

The difference between the AF1 and the Premium is a different controller, spindle and some bling

The AF Zero is the Premium plus the new motor and tungsten platter

Definitely limited numbers of the Zero

the context of my comment was ALF's inference that 'street price' on an AF1 was relevant to what one might pay for a TechDas with the 'special motor' used in the new AS-2000.

which is not likely as the AF1's 'street price' (whatever ALF's thinking it might be) is a far different animal than what one might need to pay for an AFZero, assuming with it's limited supply, that it's 'street price' would be much different than full retail. likely it will be more a case of 'can I get one?'

and if that was not the case before, it's more likely the case now.

added note; after posting I now see Chris has mentioned $300k as a projected price on the Zero. I guess that says it all.

Steve Williams · Sep 24, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
the context of my comment was ALF's inference that 'street price' on an AF1 was relevant to what one might pay for a TechDas with the 'special motor' used in the new AS-2000.

which is not likely as the AF1's 'street price' (whatever ALF's thinking it might be) is a far different animal than what one might need to pay for an AFZero, assuming with it's limited supply, that it's 'street price' would be much different than full retail. likely it will be more a case of 'can I get one?'

and if that was not the case before, it's more likely the case now.

Well Mike the bottom line for me at the LAAS was hearing a Premium with the tungsten platter (comes with the Zero) and the AF Zero motor. So realistically I understand exactly what ALF was inferring.

As for a $300K MSRP we have all heard at least north of $200 K plus rumored to come with a specially designed Artesania rack

So ALF’s inference is food for thought

Mike Lavigne · Sep 24, 2017

Steve Williams said:
Well Mike the bottom line for me at the LAAS was hearing a Premium with the tungsten platter (comes with the Zero) and the AF Zero motor. So realistically I understand exactly what ALF was inferring.

As for a $300K MSRP we have all heard at least north of $200 K plus rumored to come with a specially designed Artesania rack

So ALF’s inference is food for thought

disagree; ALF's comment is wrong as the 'street price' of the AF1 has no relevance (multiple degrees of separation) to what one might pay for a Zero.

microstrip · Sep 24, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
Bill, I'm not sure.
I'm reliably informed the current MD of Mercedes tears his hair out that he can't replicate the bulletproof reliability of cars from his 80s heritage and provenance, in the poor run of current new millennium models.
He's been threatening to get engineers retired in their 70s-90s back in the lab.
That's a serious story, no joke.

IMHO this type of comment is simply and expression of nostalgia. Cars from the 80's were mostly mechanical and much simple than current cars. Today the car industry has new constrains created by the need to decrease fuel consumption, pollute less, have higher power and become competitive in financial terms. Retired engineers would not know how to deal with them.

ddk · Sep 24, 2017

Tango said:
I think this super heavy hammer should already do the trick with vibration unless it is placed near towers of woofers. If it were in my room, i would just place it on a strong steel rack with a thick enougn steel plate uptop. Khun David, have you ever put a thin sheet of leather on the metal plate that you rest your Hammer on?

Kind regards,
Tang

Dear Khun Tang,

I use a thin leather mat but you know how they are, too thin and sound is harsh too thick it's dead and dark, you need just right

! Recently I found another mat material that's just as tonally rich, balanced and alive as the leather mat but a with very different presentation, really like adding a new arm and cartridge. Both are included with the table, one can look at it as having 8 arms and cartridges on the same table instead of 4 by switching mats. Metal mats or different upper platters aren't recommended they interfere with the purity of the sound and only add coloration.

david

bonzo75 · Sep 24, 2017

microstrip said:
IMHO this type of comment is simply and expression of nostalgia. Cars from the 80's were mostly mechanical and much simple than current cars. Today the car industry has new constrains created by the need to decrease fuel consumption, pollute less, have higher power and become competitive in financial terms. Retired engineers would not know how to deal with them.

I agree but incentives in car industry and audiophile TT industry are polar opposites. The incentives in analog were greater back then and attracted more talent, like today they do in iPod and cars. Sony is not interested in next AS. Someone like David, nishikawa and others will be

spiritofmusic · Sep 24, 2017

Dave, are you really sure that's ENOUGH choice?
I'd love at least 9 different takes, 8 simply won't cut it LOL
Will have to pass, sorry

spiritofmusic · Sep 24, 2017

Ked, luckily Panasonic-Technics ARE interested in the next SP10.

spiritofmusic · Sep 24, 2017

Micro, I believe his comment was aimed at the poor reliability of modern Mercs, apparently gets worse the more you pay.

Stacore · Sep 24, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
The Verdier Magnum looks plenty crazy, possibly the only other contender to rival the AS-2000.
Solid granite base, oversized 20" diameter platter, air bearing hydraulics, 3 motor high torque, integrated "work bench" style stand.
6 months order to delivery, £95k.
For those who are too late to get the AS-2000, this is yr next best bet.
I don't think my 18x48 suspended timber roof loft space listening room floor is going to take it!
Or the AS.
Shucks, I'm gonna have to consider mere mortal alternatives.
But for those w the floors and houses to take these Big Boys, I can't begin to imagine the playback performance potential.

I knew you'd sort of bite into that. It has one great feature, giving it a potential advantage over all other designs.

Cheers,

spiritofmusic · Sep 24, 2017

What's that Jarek?
Does it come w a ton of concrete mix to be installed under it?

ALF · Sep 24, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
disagree; ALF's comment is wrong as the 'street price' of the AF1 has no relevance (multiple degrees of separation) to what one might pay for a Zero.

Hi Mike, as you know, there are different prices on different streets; it is patently so in audio.

...AF1 streets, it is the low $40k USD to mid $60k USD; depending, of course, on the street.

I would guess that it is the same for the AS, some streets are at different prices...

So, Mike, if you are pricing the AS at the AF1 price, that would be also in the mid $40k USD to mid $60k price range?

Steve, you have made some very good points regarding the AF Zero, interesting machine and designer...I love his designs starting with the big Micro Seiki machines... I love David too...

Cheers!
ALF

I said I would never buy another Turntable...Argh !!!

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

VIP/Donor

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Industry Expert

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads