The AF1 is the same way...not airbearing per se, rather the entire platter floats and only the spindle is there to keep it centered.
I said I would never buy another Turntable...Argh !!!
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It does. And I know you will eventually have it on one of your tts. Your garage is already full. Time for resource reallocation sir.
Kind regards,
Tang
Yes...once the hoopla regarding that SAT arm infects the mind, it's hard not to think about it and wonder. The 3012 will be the first arm on the hammer.
It's in the design of the underside of the platter and air flow.
The AS doesn't even have that!
david
Mike sums it up well. These words really got me excited...worth quoting again...at least for my benefit as I am the only one who hasn't heard AS yet but is buying one.
Originally posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
as far as trying to describe what is special and unique in the performance of this tt; it's about a couple of things I guess. first; it's noise floor is in a different realm than other turntables I have heard; likely due to the design if it's platter riding on a bed of air and it's lack of any bearing. it just has a guide built into the platter. second; the platter and plinth weight 440 pounds together, and the inertia of that heavy platter impart an authoritative energy to the music beyond description. and it requires a unique motor and controller to be able to properly deal with the weight of the platter.
these motors are 'vintage', are the significantly more able to deal with the weight of this platter than any others, and I am told there are no more of them beyond these.
there are simply no alternatives to finding this type of performance. and that is "why this turntable"..
Dave, so many tts out there.
AF, Kronos, GPA, SME etc etc.
Yep, they look great, sound great, full of tech, epiphanies from their users.
And then there is THIS ONE.
THE ONE.
Beyond inert plinth.
Delicate bed of air.
No bearing.
Beyond inert platter.
Brutal motor to marry that platter and air bed synergy.
Nothing else.
NOTHING ELSE.
And that amazing 70s vibe about the whole thing.
And true limited rarity.
Gentlemen, you are the toast of the analogphile world, and are in for experiences that the word epiphany isn't quite enough to cover.
AF, Kronos, GPA, SME etc etc.
Yep, they look great, sound great, full of tech, epiphanies from their users.
And then there is THIS ONE.
THE ONE.
Beyond inert plinth.
Delicate bed of air.
No bearing.
Beyond inert platter.
Brutal motor to marry that platter and air bed synergy.
Nothing else.
NOTHING ELSE.
And that amazing 70s vibe about the whole thing.
And true limited rarity.
Gentlemen, you are the toast of the analogphile world, and are in for experiences that the word epiphany isn't quite enough to cover.
As far as I can imagine what's going on, this is a very smart idea, guys, but requiring
a SOTA machining precision! Congrats!
I'm wondering if anyone ever heard /or at least seen/ another great assault on the
ultimate TT design - Verdier Magnum?
http://www.jcverdier.com/ADSL/Platine_Magnum.html
Cheers,
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Fortunately the patents on air bearing turntables are now expired and this technology is now free domain. See this image of one of the first patent I could locate on air bearing floating turntable platters (1963). Peter Forsell could not patent his turntable , but managed to patent its use in the flywheel, as no one else though about it before!
As far as I can imagine the AS2000 does not have a classical spindle - probably it uses a self centering conical air bearing system - one of the possibilities created by the very high mass platter.
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If I understand the engineering correctly from the bits and pieces in the posts, the AS is an air-bearing design without a spindle. If true, that would be an ideal operating platform - though not new, some high-speed centrifuges work that way. So if I have this right, then congratulations are in order for the engineering feat, but I would also ask this: why then does one need an isolation platform underneath it?
Congratulations also to those who can afford this 'table.
Congratulations also to those who can afford this 'table.
I wondered the same thing about isolation, but then I thought about the arm and the resonances that can reach it from the ground/stand/plinth. There has to be NO relative movement between the spindle and pivot: a requirement of any good turntable. If one considers an extreme example of one of these turntables being placed in a moving vehicle on a bumpy road, then one can imagine the platter and the arm not being stable relative to each other. However, given the extreme mass of the system, isolation may not be necessary in real world conditions.
Mike, Ron, Christian and David may arrive at different solutions regarding isolation. This is one of the really intriguing things about this news.
that is a question. and lots of opinions on the answer. for sure you still have a motor and plinth that holds the tone arms which have no isolation, so resonance will be an issue for them, even though isolation would have degrees less/negligible effect on the platter. at this level of information everything matters.
added note---after posting I see Peter has made the same comment on this subject.
thanks.....but....i'm only speaking for myself when I say.....
'afford' would not be how I, personally, would describe it. 'willing to work longer before retirement' would be how I would put it. and that is how I explained it to my wife. it was a lifestyle choice.
It's true Ack there's no spindle. IME this tt doesn't need isolation just a solid platform to rest on, we've even had it on not so stable racks and wobbly tables at some shows without any issues but never on a Herzan type apparatus. Mike & Chris already use a Herzan for other tables and believe that this type of isolation has sonic advantages beyond the norm, we'll see.
david
and each of our set-ups and bass energy source proximity is different. and three of us live away from the big cities and none live close to freeways/highways or waves on the ocean (significant sources of ground noise).
David's is vintage bass and 30+ feet away.
Ron's tt will be in another room.
Chris uses X-2's without subs (I think) and his speakers are close to his tt's (looks pretty close (3'-4') in the pictures).
and I have 750 pound, 7 foot tall bass towers with -3db at 7hz and -6db at 3hz sitting 7 feet from my tt.
so we all have different degrees of resonance feedback challenges. Chis and I have different concerns than Ron and David.
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Sorry if I've missed this.
Is this AS-2000 a refurbed version of an original to have better tolerances, maybe a redesigned air/vacuum pump, and the overengineered motor?
Or is it a ground up redesign using some/all parts?
If it's the former, it was, and remains, a cutting edge one-off.
Is that because this physical bearing-less air bearing was borderline impossible to get right then, so that only one certifiably crazy analog designer would truly attempt it, and none have dared since?
Is this AS-2000 a refurbed version of an original to have better tolerances, maybe a redesigned air/vacuum pump, and the overengineered motor?
Or is it a ground up redesign using some/all parts?
If it's the former, it was, and remains, a cutting edge one-off.
Is that because this physical bearing-less air bearing was borderline impossible to get right then, so that only one certifiably crazy analog designer would truly attempt it, and none have dared since?
Congratulations to all you crazy audiophiles who are getting this turntable.
So I understand that the platter floats on air (which sounds wonderful)... does it also have a vacuum system to clamp the LP to the platter?
thanks Ian.
no. no vacuum with the American Sounds. it does come with it's own solid milled record weight. don't know what it's made of.
personally I prefer no vacuum. from when I had the Rockport Sirius III (with vacuum) sitting next to the NVS with Durand record weight. not a strict A/B comparison obviously as there were many differences. but I just preferred the 'life' of the music without the vacuum. YMMV.
and I don't seem to have many warped pressings. I have owned a flattener for 5 years I've not used once.
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