I said I would never buy another Turntable...Argh !!!

ALF · Sep 23, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
I hate this thread, I really hate it!
I'm feeling the urge to go for a final FINAL tt/arm upgrade.
Not just yet, and prob not at AS-2000 or AF1 price levels.
But next one down.
I've had independent confirmation from one of our most respected members here that I'm really achieving something special in my room, which is so great to hear.
I'm happy w amps and spkrs, and critically the amps/spkrs/room synergy.
Streamer and dac big move happens in 2018, by which time I'll be completing my system-wide Stacores isoln project.
And then I may treat myself with a crazy good analog investment.
AS-2000 as I say is a bit beyond me, and will be n/a.
But that still leaves a few contenders in the $35-50k range.
As I said, I really hate this thread .

Greetings SoM,

Nothing to hate, my friend; it is just a different-in-kind solution. If you do not mind a kind suggestion, IMHO your budget will surely get you into two super solutions...one, the BiG Micro Seike offerings or two, the EMT 927. Also, with a robust phono stage with a good brain, and if you are lucky, a Neumann cart, you are there...done. There is still hope and happy hunting!

Cheers!
ALF

Steve Williams · Sep 23, 2017

ALF said:
Greetings SoM,

Nothing to hate, my friend; it is just a different-in-kind solution. If you do not mind a kind suggestion, IMHO your budget will surely get you into two super solutions...one, the BiG Micro Seike offerings or two, the EMT 927. Also, with a robust phono stage with a good brain, and if you are lucky, a Neumann cart, you are there...done. There is still hope and happy hunting!

Cheers!
ALF

if you can find the same Neumann cartridge that David uses, then it is a win win situation

ALF · Sep 23, 2017

I may have missed the post, if so, I apologize in advance for being redundant.

David, if you do not mind my asking, where is the pricing on your new adventures?

Thanks!
ALF

Gardener · Sep 23, 2017

rockitman said:
Thank you. Who said I was selling the AF1 ? I currently have one on my Coralstone's being rebuilt at Koetsu with diamond cantilever. I should have that by the end of November. The SAT arm may not be budgeted until 2019 at this point. Of course if the designer wants to get a demo SAT arm into my hands to try in my system, I could be motivated to buy it immediately if it delivers what everyone seems to be talking about with this arm.

The elite for me was so good and such a step up from my phantom.And yes so adjustable which for me was important
The SAT as i listen just is so revealing and you can do VTA on the fly just tighten one screw when you have it right.I adjust things rarely now with this arm which says a lot.
Rockitman you must be able to get a demo?
Can you imagine it on your new turntable ?

spiritofmusic · Sep 23, 2017

I don't think I've ever been as envious of a component upgrade or straight purchase as I am of the Four Musketeers buying their AS-2000s.
I'll need a cold shower when the first photo essays/user reports come in .

DaveyF · Sep 23, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
Davey,

an air base is passive, it floats, and settles and has it's own resonance (period of movement). I would expect as you described, it was not a good match for a lightweight turntable with another passive isolation process happening as the two passive devices create their own storm of unpredictable consequences.

I've been using a heavy (125 lbs) non suspended turntable on my active TS-140 for 5 years in my system and it performs admirably.

as far as experimenting with active isolation with this 550 pound American Sounds non suspended turntable; the idea of basically custom ordering this exotic active stand and not being all-in committed is daunting to say the least.

either way; nude or active, you need to do your study and then go for it.

I've done my homework and i'll likely go the active route; if I'm not happy i'll then cross that bridge when I come to it.

Mike, clearly there are significant differences in the tables and isolation devices. However, since the American Sound utilizes an air bearing ( which IME are always tricky to set up and maintain) adding another variable immediately might not be the answer....OTOH, it may....I guess you will just have to experiment.

Mike Lavigne · Sep 23, 2017

DaveyF said:
Mike, clearly there are significant differences in the tables and isolation devices. However, since the American Sound utilizes an air bearing ( which IME are always tricky to set up and maintain) adding another variable immediately might not be the answer....OTOH, it may....I guess you will just have to experiment.

agree that could be a factor, but I'm guessing with the mass of the platter and plinth that it's not. active is so stiff and quick that I am quite confident it will be fine. I think the 'air bed with guide' (it's not a bearing) will be happier with the active than without.

but there is a remote possibility there could be a synergy issue.

but I'm willing to go for the moon to get the last iota of performance. and take my chances. I can't stop now.

Mike Lavigne · Sep 23, 2017

ALF said:
I may have missed the post, if so, I apologize in advance for being redundant.

David, if you do not mind my asking, where is the pricing on your new adventures?

Thanks!
ALF

here is what David said about that here

Given today's market costs pricing is quite sane for what this turntable is, direct to end user will be in the AF-1 range but sonically and ergonomically it's in a very extra ordinary class.

spiritofmusic · Sep 23, 2017

Mike, and the others, are you keeping the faceted plinth design finish of the AS?
Or is it being smoothed out for a more homogenous look?

853guy · Sep 23, 2017

ddk said:
Hi 853 Guy,

Airbearing/AudioCirc is a good friend and we've been chatting & sharing for years, in fact he introduced the engineer who designed the AS motor controller and flywheel. The picture is of the first three AS motors & controllers we made. These motors are unique and demand sophisticated engineering to operate optimally, this controller was specifically designed for these motors from scratch and every controller is also individually programmed to the matching motor's operating parameters and that's what you see in AudioCirc.com's pictures.

david

Hi ddk,

Wow, that's really cool. It's so inspiring to see ground-up no-holds-barred engineering applied to something that many so-called SOTA efforts tend to relegate to lesser importance. That's everything's important in a turntable is a given, but my hat is off to you and Airbearing for pursuing such a robust reimagining of technology in such a thorough way. Congrats again to you, rockitman, Mike and Ron. You guys and Airbearing are like the Illuminati of vinyl reproduction. Though if you were, I imagine you couldn't admit to it, lest you be hanged, drawn and quartered at dawn.

Appreciate you sharing this, and again, excited to see what new revelations wait to spring forth from a medium declared dead in 1982.

Best to you all,

853guy

spiritofmusic · Sep 23, 2017

853, like the "dead" parrot in Monty Python, vinyl was never really dead.
It's outlived plenty of format changes, prob MQA next.
Big mass, big motor, big cushion of air, piece of cake!

ALF · Sep 23, 2017

spiritofmusic said:
853, like the "dead" parrot in Monty Python, vinyl was never really dead.
It's outlived plenty of format changes, prob MQA next.
Big mass, big motor, big cushion of air, piece of cake!

Long live the Parrot!!

Cheers!
ALF

ALF · Sep 23, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
here is what David said about that here

Thanks Mike!

Still not really clear; as you may know Mike, the when comparing to the "direct to end user" AF1 price, I believe that is much different than the suggested Retail AF1 pricing.

Maybe David was meaning closer to the retail price, not sure. If possible, can you elaborate?

Anyway, as my Auntie would be inclined to say, "In any case, priceless."

Cheers!
ALF

PeterA · Sep 23, 2017

Ron Resnick said:
I am open to it, Mike! Thank you!

I think the AS-2000 will be a champion in the articulation department, so I would steer toward warmth from a tabletop.

Interesting approach. I would want the most neutral and high resolution source component (table/arm/support) I could afford and then play with differently voiced cartridges on multiple copies of the best arm I could find. Perhaps one mono and one stereo if I had a large enough mono LP collection.

Steve Williams · Sep 23, 2017

PeterA said:
Interesting approach. I would want the most neutral and high resolution source component (table/arm/support) I could afford and then play with differently voiced cartridges on multiple copies of the best arm I could find. Perhaps one mono and one stereo if I had a large enough mono LP collection.

IMO a table, be it active or passive should be as neutral as you can find.

ddk · Sep 23, 2017

853guy said:
Hi ddk,

Wow, that's really cool. It's so inspiring to see ground-up no-holds-barred engineering applied to something that many so-called SOTA efforts tend to relegate to lesser importance. That's everything's important in a turntable is a given, but my hat is off to you and Airbearing for pursuing such a robust reimagining of technology in such a thorough way. Congrats again to you, rockitman, Mike and Ron. You guys and Airbearing are like the Illuminati of vinyl reproduction. Though if you were, I imagine you couldn't admit to it, lest you be hanged, drawn and quartered at dawn.

Appreciate you sharing this, and again, excited to see what new revelations wait to spring forth from a medium declared dead in 1982.

Best to you all,

853guy

Very kind of you 853guy but I can't take any credit it should all go to the man who created AS. You want to talk about design genius here's the essence of purism & minimalism. Essentially two massive blocks of naked steel are placed together and come to life with a breath of air only to make music! The purity of AS's sound is why the machine was built with such fanatic minimalism and precision, if this isn't inspired then I don't know what is. I'm not saying it out of any sense of false modesty but any praise should first go to whatever higher power that helped me piece it together and then to all the guys here joining in to make it all happen. Special credit to Ron for his trust and jumping in headfirst right from the start and thanks to Steve and this wonderful site and bringing all of us together.

david

Tango · Sep 23, 2017

rockitman said:
I could be motivated to buy it immediately if it delivers what everyone seems to be talking about with this arm.

It does. And I know you will eventually have it on one of your tts. Your garage is already full. Time for resource reallocation sir

.

Kind regards,
Tang

Tango · Sep 23, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
I'm willing to go for the moon to get the last iota of performance. and take my chances. I can't stop now.

To Mars you mean

.

Leif S · Sep 23, 2017

Steve Williams said:
There's always the new Pacific Christian.

I'm waiting for mine

Mike Lavigne · Sep 23, 2017

Tango said:
To Mars you mean .

said the guy with the AF1, Kronos Pro/SAT, and 927.

i'm just trying to stay in your wake.......

it's hard.

best regards,

Mike

I said I would never buy another Turntable...Argh !!!

Well-Known Member

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator

Well-Known Member

VIP/Donor

VIP/Donor

Industry Expert

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member

Similar threads