How long do cables take to break-in?

bazelio

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New forum member chiming in with my experiences...

Cable differences are not a "belief system". They're a listenable / verifiable fact. And it's not just a function of conductor material. Cable design/architecture, dielectric material, etc are variables that matter as well. With that said, I fully understand those who loathe cables and especially the exorbitant pricing these days. I look at cables one of two ways. I prefer my cables to be as open and uncolored as possible as a starting point. Since I prefer tube gear, I will add body, texture, dynamics, etc via tubes. On that front I prefer the preamp to have detail, attack, and dynamics. Then I try add body, tonal coloration to taste, and texture as needed with my amp tubes. At that point, I may, over time, tweak the final sound with cable changes. The first point is usually the interconnect between the phono and preamp, working towards the speakers as needed. Power cables and power outlets are further tweaks. Furutech offers a GTX-D line of outlet in rhodium or gold plating, and they DO sound different. If I feel the need for a faster sound, rhodium does the trick. A more laid back and slightly smoother sound - then the gold. Similar affects come about with the Furutech power cables using either gold or rhodium plated connectors. These are fairly easy to DIY with a crimping tool. Anyhow, point being, there is no "best" cable out there and cable upgrades should be brought in to one's system late in the game to achieve a final desired balance. Don't buy a cable based on recommendation. Listen to cables first. Various vendors have generous return policies. Cable Co has a lending library. Etc.

Regarding break in. Yes, it will affect most cables. As a EE by education and profession, this one was harder to stomach. There are plausible explanations, but I prefer to avoid objective analysis on this topic and try to stick to my senses instead. So, I've recently been "renting time" on an acquaintance's cable cooker, which makes quick work of the "burn in" job - usually 48 hours for most non-garden-hose cable gauges. And the before/after affect is not at all difficult to detect. Most recently, I'd constructed DIY Furutech speaker cables for a nearfield rig using their midline cable (Alpha S-14) and rhodium connectors. Brand new, these cables were a bit sharp and sizzley. Two days later after cooking, the sibilance had disappeared, and more to my dismay, so had a good amount of the mid bass! In this particular case, the difference while notable, was not necessarily the desired outcome!! Post-cooking, and after further regular playing time, things do seem to have evened out. It's hard to tell on it's own because listening time occurs in short bursts over long periods of time, but I've kept around a particularly bassy/muddy interconnect as reference simply for its thick bottom end. And while I thought I heard some of that mid bass coming back over time, it became easier to verify in A/B trials over time with this particular reference point. Bass detail did seem to slowly (but surely) return. No noticeable affect on "openness", staging, etc. But these other areas for certain.
 
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Geir

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Nov 13, 2021
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Some cables can take as long as 700-1200 hours to fully break in.

Among those cables from Furutech, Argento and Lessloss, Furutech being the worst.
Cryo-treatment seems to prolong the break in time.

Meaningless to share these opinions in an online forum, but sometimes we do meaningless things;)
 

JackD201

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In my experience teflon dielectrics take forever so that cable cooker comes in handy. Thankfully mine are cooked before they are shipped. I think pvc/small gauge cables don't change much same with cotton/air ones.
 

andromedaaudio

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How long do cables take to break-in?​


I suggest you ask Carlos 269 ?? ;)
As he is an electrical engineer

Mine take about 10600 hours , 2 more years to go :)

Seriously ,afaic this is not a concern at all.
May be it is a concern somewhat if you have those networked cables with Caps in them
 

Cellcbern

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Got the Audioharma Cable Cooker and stopped waiting for new cables to burn in. Cables I've been using regularly for several years also sound better after being "cooked".
 
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speakerlust

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Mar 26, 2011
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How can we be certain that what's going on is cable break-in and not ear break-in (i.e., our ears' acclimation to, and increasing comfort with, a slightly different sound)?
Ron, I personally suspect there are elements of both at play. I periodically change to a different digital input for a DAC if new digital or USB cable to the DAC and then go back to new cable assigned location. I find myself then more analytical on what I perceive on presentation. If it's a power cord, I often try initially exchanging cords with other of my pieces to find the most pleasant overall presentation and then revisiting 2-4 weeks later. I also have done this with analog output cables as well. I have not made speaker cable changes for quite some time.
 

Geir

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Got the Audioharma Cable Cooker and stopped waiting for new cables to burn in. Cables I've been using regularly for several years also sound better after being "cooked".
How long time do you use to cooke the cables?
Curious about this, if it's possible to get even better performance from cables that are cooked than through normal break in just playing music.
 

Blackmorec

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Feb 1, 2019
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I gave up analytical listening years ago when I realised that at the conscious level it was completely unreliable. Instead I just let the system play music and simply wait for impressions to occur to me subconciously. I keep a notebook handy so that as adjectives pop into my mind I write them down.

When it comes to cable run in, I rely solely on how much I’m enjoying the music. In my stable, non-upgraded system it is thrilling to listen to with nothing consciously detracting from the music, other that the occasion bad recording. When I introduce new cables, I’ll often hear initial improvements but after a few days I’m usually hearing anomalies that interfere with my enjoyment level. That may last for upwards of 100 hours to anything up to 500 hours for stubborn power cables….with the advent of low voltage digital, this run in has become far more significant. When run in is almost complete I’ll usually have a hurdy gurddy ride of good days followed by bad, until the system becomes entirely stable. The final sound quality is always better than the best to that point. I have had instances where the sound has ultimately stabilised at a level that wasn’t creating the same level of enjoyment that I’d previously enjoyed, in which case I removed the new component.

For power cables I generally try to run them in off line, so I have adapters that convert IEC connectors to UK mains format so I can hook up the new cable to a reciprocating fan And leave it to condition for a couple of weeks. That way you hear an instant improvement in SQ and skip the 2-3weeks of post-purchase-paranoia.
 

Geir

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Nov 13, 2021
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I gave up analytical listening years ago when I realised that at the conscious level it was completely unreliable. Instead I just let the system play music and simply wait for impressions to occur to me subconciously. I keep a notebook handy so that as adjectives pop into my mind I write them down.

When it comes to cable run in, I rely solely on how much I’m enjoying the music. In my stable, non-upgraded system it is thrilling to listen to with nothing consciously detracting from the music, other that the occasion bad recording. When I introduce new cables, I’ll often hear initial improvements but after a few days I’m usually hearing anomalies that interfere with my enjoyment level. That may last for upwards of 100 hours to anything up to 500 hours for stubborn power cables….with the advent of low voltage digital, this run in has become far more significant. When run in is almost complete I’ll usually have a hurdy gurddy ride of good days followed by bad, until the system becomes entirely stable. The final sound quality is always better than the best to that point. I have had instances where the sound has ultimately stabilised at a level that wasn’t creating the same level of enjoyment that I’d previously enjoyed, in which case I removed the new component.

For power cables I generally try to run them in off line, so I have adapters that convert IEC connectors to UK mains format so I can hook up the new cable to a reciprocating fan And leave it to condition for a couple of weeks. That way you hear an instant improvement in SQ and skip the 2-3weeks of post-purchase-paranoia.
Regarding stubborn power cables, I got advise from Shunyata to give cables time to rest during break in period.
Instead of running a system powered 24/7 over several weeks, try to turn the power on/off in 12 hours cycles over a few days after say 2 weeks of 24/7 break in. I tried this, and it seems to shorten the overall break in time. For some of the heavier gauge power cord, I would recommend to try this out. Someone here said that cable break in is not something to be concerned about. Well, that is until you shake your head in disbelief that even after hundreds of hours the cables does not perform to satifaction, and if you have spent quite a bit of money, it could be good to learn that other also experience this. It can be so annoying, and make you a bit neurotic. If people dismiss this phenomenon, I just think they lack experience and a sense of awareness to changes in sound of their hifi system.
Typical things to look for are harsh treble, lack of bass, changes in soundstage from compressed to holographic, change from sounding dynamically contricted to a feeling the natural ebb and flow of the music.
 
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BlueFox

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While I haven’t changed/upgraded cables in a couple of years I just install the new cable and play music. They always sound great from the start, and then one night I realize the system really is sounding better.
 

marty

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It was the great Karmeli who first told me that if power cables don't sound good after 5 minutes, something's wrong. In general, I agree, but I'm happy to wait 24 hours for the last word in refinement, particularly for the bass, which often "comes in" last. Signal cables are typically not that far behind with a realistic assessment possible at 24 and then 48+ hours for refinements. The variables are many that may effect your results and include not only the construction of a particular cable and their terminations, but the metals that they are being plugged into, which is often an overlooked variable. https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/fun-with-metallurgy.23376/
 

Lee

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Feb 3, 2011
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It depends on the cable... more surface area between the conductor and dielectric the more obvious burn-in will be, teflon can take hundreds of hours. I've found most people consider burn-in done after 100-200 hours but I've had some customers notice burn-in up to 500 hours which is what it really takes to completely burn-in teflon dielectric.

Burn-in is pretty extreme with my litz wire as it has a lot of surface area. I posted measurements last year of a litz-wire speaker cable new and after burn-in using my AudioDharma cable cooker. Test used my Pioneer S-1EX speakers and OmniMic with the mic positioned a few inches from the concentric mid/tweeter used on this speaker.

View attachment 35374

Dave,

This is a brilliant post. Thank you. We should catch up at some point by phone.

Lee
 
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DaveC

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Dave,

This is a brilliant post. Thank you. We should catch up at some point by phone.

Lee

Thanks and sounds great, feel free to call anytime! :)
 
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K3RMIT

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Cables do sound different and I’m a lifelong agnostic of anything audio in claims. but why can be measured / direction can’t but under certain circumstances I feel it can. if one measured the dc resistance , capacitance yielding and imp. It can be used to have an idea. It’s given freq we hear and knowing the output imp and input impedance a chart can be made.
it will not be an absolute but give a view to effects. top end roll
off more mid centric. having said this
burn in I feel can’t be measured but it too may exist , why all the tiny connections in a multi stand cable. even a dialectic used can effect sound. has anyone removed all cables gently cleaned all connections. The change is very obvious most times. but here is one I don’t read and a dear audio giant told me his view on. if we move the cables or even just step on them we are making changes to the now settled structure. Yielding a sound change due to new contacts being made. while stand off make claims in some ways I get the concept. now here is one that will piss off most reading this post. how is it always burn in always makes it better hahaha. i think the answer is in our heads as we make new auditory memories it is how we hear and know. now sometime changes sound good until our brains settles in this gets us how it really sounds and sometimes it’s not good. i think my burn in comment holds water too and small adjustments we make get us to where we like it.
 

microstrip

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It was the great Karmeli who first told me that if power cables don't sound good after 5 minutes, something's wrong. In general, I agree, but I'm happy to wait 24 hours for the last word in refinement, particularly for the bass, which often "comes in" last. Signal cables are typically not that far behind with a realistic assessment possible at 24 and then 48+ hours for refinements. The variables are many that may effect your results and include not only the construction of a particular cable and their terminations, but the metals that they are being plugged into, which is often an overlooked variable. https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/fun-with-metallurgy.23376/

A power cable is not fundamentally different from a signal cable. Looking from a spectral perspective we do not expect the difference due to burn-in in power cables to be related to the 50 or 60 Hz component, so all we will have are differences due to how it handles noise. The same for signal cables - if the differences due to burn-in showed in the audio band - 20 - 20KHz - they would be easily measurable. So probably we are mainly dealing with something going from the hundred of kilohertz to a few gigahertz when addressing burn-in. A real nightmare!
 

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