Techdas Air Force 3 VS Clearaudio Master Innovation

Tango

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The tt is what determines the nature of your sound.

david

I will keep telling my wife this so that I can buy more tts :D.
 

howiebrou

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Jun 29, 2012
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Not really Gian, AF-1, AF-3 & the CA have very distinct characters that you can't change or cover up with any arm/cartridge combination only tune and dress it up to a point. The tt is what determines the nature of your sound.

david

David,

How would you characterise the sound of each of these in simple terms?

Thanks
 

ddk

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I will keep telling my wife this so that I can buy more tts :D.

Your new 927 will take you to another level but you might have to untweak your system a bit to give it breathing room! Prepare your wife for another buying round, mere highend won't cut it anymore time for the "Beyond" level :)!
The EMT 927 was always "the" one until the American Sound specially the new production top AS model are the only tts I know that bests the 927, and in every parameter, but that doesn't take away anything from the EMT.

david
 

Tango

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you might have to untweak your system a bit to give it breathing room!

david

Kob koon mak mak krab for your sincere advice. But I just cant untweak sir. I am just right about where I want to be :D. Going "Beyond" seems lonesome sir :p

Respectfully yours,
Tang
 

ddk

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David,

How would you characterise the sound of each of these in simple terms?

Thanks

Simple terms isn't easy as there's a lot going on with each tt, meaning that they both have coloration :)!

The AF3 has a very lively and attractive sound with lots of energy and a nice warm glow. In comparison the CA is more laid back and overall darker character also the with slightly less body but things are calmer. I'm not trying to paint the CA in a negative light just pointingt out the differences between the two. You should really try to hear both tables if you can, they're diverse enough that you might not need side by side comparison.

david
 

ddk

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Kob koon mak mak krab for your sincere advice. But I just cant untweak sir. I am just right about where I want to be :D. Going "Beyond" seems lonesome sir :p

Respectfully yours,
Tang

Ka tot didn't intend to step on toes... You'll like the "Beyond".

david
 

abeidrov

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Howiebrou, I've recently had a chance to compare AF2 to AF3, and the difference was not subtle. Since I cannot afford AF2, I desided to look at other options (Kuzma or TW Acustic). So, I would strongly advice you to listen to the AF3 and compare it to any other TT in this price range before making a decision to buy it.
 

microstrip

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Your new 927 will take you to another level but you might have to untweak your system a bit to give it breathing room! Prepare your wife for another buying round, mere highend won't cut it anymore time for the "Beyond" level :)!
The EMT 927 was always "the" one until the American Sound specially the new production top AS model are the only tts I know that bests the 927, and in every parameter, but that doesn't take away anything from the EMT.

david

Perhaps it was already referred and I forgot, but how many AS-1000X's were manufactured? Where was the factory?
 

ddk

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Perhaps it was already referred and I forgot, but how many AS-1000X's were manufactured? Where was the factory?

There apparently was an earlier lighter version built but I was told less than twenty AS-1000were produced and they almost all sold locally to Japanese audiophiles. AS had plans for a bigger upgraded model when the tt market collapsed in Japan so it never went into production but a handful of the big ones are being made now.

david
 

Tango

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Ka tot didn't intend to step on toes... You'll like the "Beyond".

david

No toe stepping Khun David. My tweaking really does look like Frankenstein "unnatural" :D but it really sounds the opposite of how it looks sir. No sacasm, I am really at kindergarten level comparing to so many highly experienced listeners in this forum not to mention you whom l really admire and respect. Pls, feel at ease to comment or give advise to me in the future. I am a beautiful world kind of person. No Ka tot pls..:)

Kind regards,
Tang
 

ddk

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No toe stepping Khun David. My tweaking really does look like Frankenstein "unnatural" :D but it really sounds the opposite of how it looks sir. No sacasm, I am really at kindergarten level comparing to so many highly experienced listeners in this forum not to mention you whom l really admire and respect. Pls, feel at ease to comment or give advise to me in the future. I am a beautiful world kind of person. No Ka tot pls..:)

Kind regards,
Tang

Thank you Khun Tang, glad about the toes :)!

david
 

howiebrou

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Howiebrou, I've recently had a chance to compare AF2 to AF3, and the difference was not subtle. Since I cannot afford AF2, I desided to look at other options (Kuzma or TW Acustic). So, I would strongly advice you to listen to the AF3 and compare it to any other TT in this price range before making a decision to buy it.

Thanks.

I guess this means you didn't think much of the AF3?

Howie
 

abeidrov

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Not really, what I heard was a coloured sound almost without bass. Again, this is only in comparison to the AF2. I do not have much experience with TTs, so maybe this is how a 28K TT is supposed to sound in comparison to a 54K one. Maybe, it's a lack of suspension in AF3, and if you put on a proper TT platform, it would sound more neutral.
 

byrdparis

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i have the MI for 6 months now.. using several tonearms on it, including the most respectful TT2 and UNIversal from clear audio..
i was selling my Brinkmann Balance (with AS AQUILAR) when i first heard the CA MI with TT2... its just blow me away!
it is not DARK or LAID BACK turntable, not at all... i guess its a matter of carts, over all system, phono stages etc.
 

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ddk

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i have the MI for 6 months now.. using several tonearms on it, including the most respectful TT2 and UNIversal from clear audio..
i was selling my Brinkmann Balance (with AS AQUILAR) when i first heard the CA MI with TT2... its just blow me away!
it is not DARK or LAID BACK turntable, not at all... i guess its a matter of carts, over all system, phono stages etc.

Keywords- "In comparison" to AF-3.

david
 

Audiophile Bill

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Mar 23, 2015
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i have the MI for 6 months now.. using several tonearms on it, including the most respectful TT2 and UNIversal from clear audio..
i was selling my Brinkmann Balance (with AS AQUILAR) when i first heard the CA MI with TT2... its just blow me away!
it is not DARK or LAID BACK turntable, not at all... i guess its a matter of carts, over all system, phono stages etc.

Totally agree. The CA has never ever sounded dark or laid back in the many systems I have heard. In fact it has been the total opposite. I have heard it loads with their various tangential arms TT3 and TT1 and their pivoted arm. Each time with the gold finger cartridge.

To me it has been extremely resolving, clean sounding, fast, deep stage.

I think AF3 is very poor - heard it quite a few times in various systems and I don't like it at all. It is miles away from its big brothers.
 

JackD201

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I guess I am in the minority here probably because I have always used AF3s on CMS rack and filter systems. While bass in particular is not as impactful and is more rounded out (colored) than the big brothers, never bass shy.

I have always used the exact same arm, cart, phono stages and cable. Elite, TD Ti, LP2.1 or EMT JPA 66 and Odin. Settings near identical with adjustment done on grafting only on tower height/VTA/SRA. S to P distance determined using blank wand and Graham spindle nub.

I'm wondering if anybody has made the comparisons under conditions as similar.
 

ddk

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I guess I am in the minority here probably because I have always used AF3s on CMS rack and filter systems. While bass in particular is not as impactful and is more rounded out (colored) than the big brothers, never bass shy.

I have always used the exact same arm, cart, phono stages and cable. Elite, TD Ti, LP2.1 or EMT JPA 66 and Odin. Settings near identical with adjustment done on grafting only on tower height/VTA/SRA. S to P distance determined using blank wand and Graham spindle nub.

I'm wondering if anybody has made the comparisons under conditions as similar.

Comparison to the CA or to other AF tts? I have done the latter but the CA I've heard often in familiar systems with familiar arm & cartridges. As the budget drops compromises add up, I find the AF3 competitive at it's price level and not particularly lacking in frequency response but there is a character and color to the sound.

david
 
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byrdparis

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Nov 24, 2015
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although i have the CA MI i don't think the AF3 is poor... i will have one in a couple of months at home beside my MI with the simplicity II on it and the DS AUDIO 002
and i will preform a large scale comparison between them, arms and carts....

in the meanwhile i heard the AF3 at a good friend house. he got the SAT arm and two Kozma - a 4P and the air line, with some of the largest high end carts i ever seen.
we tried on each arms a various carts; CA GFA to miyajima zero, lyra etna sl, MSL gold, platanus fuuga, lyta titan mono, air tight pc1 supreme etc etc etc...
the AF3 sitting on a very very good table platform that was used for electronic microscope, and sound amazing.! full of energy, bass extended and alot of vibe, it is very quiet and stable player!
beyond the AF3 arms and carts he uses all Dan D'Agostino amp and phono with Isophon Arabba speakers with a full loom of crystal cables dream line.
 

bonzo75

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How was the Fuuga compared to the others?
 

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