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Thread: Techdas Air Force 3 VS Clearaudio Master Innovation

  1. #51
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor]
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonzo75 View Post
    Fans of MS like it better than the AF1. Especially the 8000
    Yes I am one of those--I've posted earlier -I compared the AF1 to the MS 8000

    I preferred the 8000

    YVMV

    BruceD

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    Not polarizing at all Howie, it is what it is only trying to give you an idea what it sounds like which I'm not sure if we're helping since it's in the context of other tables that you might not have heard either.

    david
    It's all useful stuff David and thank you to everyone for chiming in. The limitations of a discussion forum are what they are and it's good to get people's impression but ultimately hearing the tables for yourself is the only way. I have heard all the AF models and so far that experience hasn't compelled me to buy any......yet!

    Thanks

    Howie

  3. #53
    Addicted to Best! awsmone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceD View Post
    Yes I am one of those--I've posted earlier -I compared the AF1 to the MS 8000

    I preferred the 8000

    YVMV

    BruceD
    That's interesting

    What were your differences you perceived?

    As someone who back off from buying a AF1 after hearing 1, and 3 I am interested in your views?
    "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky"

    [/B]
    [I]Monaco tt 1.5 triplanar/Xv1
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  4. #54
    Addicted to Best! PeterA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    There apparently was an earlier lighter version built but I was told less than twenty AS-1000were produced and they almost all sold locally to Japanese audiophiles. AS had plans for a bigger upgraded model when the tt market collapsed in Japan so it never went into production but a handful of the big ones are being made now.

    david
    Hello David, this post has me very intrigued. Could you elaborate a bit on the statement in bold? Did you start a small production run of these based on the set of plans that you have? Will they be similar to the one that is in your collection and the table that everyone raves about? Will they be commercially available or will the handful go to a select group of "friends and family"? I'm afraid to even ask about the cost, and I'm sure it is a closely held secret.
    My system link on WBF: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...-Sublime-Sound
    Analog: SME 30/12, SME V-12, My Sonic Labs Signature Gold, AirTight Supreme, VDH Colibri Platinum, MINT LP protractor
    Electronics: Pass Labs XA160.5 amp, XP-20 preamp, XP-25 phono, Cables: Transparent REF XL MM2,
    Speakers: Magico Mini II, Essentials: Jim Smith RoomPlay, 3 Vibraplanes, Dedicated circuits

  5. #55
    Addicted to Best! awsmone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Hello David, this post has me very intrigued. Could you elaborate a bit on the statement in bold? Did you start a small production run of these based on the set of plans that you have? Will they be similar to the one that is in your collection and the table that everyone raves about? Will they be commercially available or will the handful go to a select group of "friends and family"? I'm afraid to even ask about the cost, and I'm sure it is a closely held secret.
    +1
    "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky"

    [/B]
    [I]Monaco tt 1.5 triplanar/Xv1
    Bakoon two box phono; step up Cinemag, Altec, FR, RCA
    Halcro DM 8 running current mode
    Bespoke server Roon and HQplayer at dsd2
    Atomic clock to USB aes interface
    Meitner DA2
    Lamm m1.2 or Goldmund 29M
    Morel Fat Ladies
    Bespoke active crossover 5 Subwoofers
    Sony PSX9 XL55 Bakoon phono
    Pioneer PLL1 DV XV1s Esoteric E03/CO2 as output
    Stealth cabling

  6. #56
    [Industry Expert] ddk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Hello David, this post has me very intrigued. Could you elaborate a bit on the statement in bold? Did you start a small production run of these based on the set of plans that you have? Will they be similar to the one that is in your collection and the table that everyone raves about? Will they be commercially available or will the handful go to a select group of "friends and family"? I'm afraid to even ask about the cost, and I'm sure it is a closely held secret.
    Hi Peter,

    There already was an upgraded version designed by AS when the Japanese tt market collapsed so it never went into production, it's this new model that I've been working on for the last two years to get made. This version is slightly bigger and heavier than the old one with a modified platter design. The new motor and motor controller are absolutely unique and are key elements of the overall sound. No servo no feedback loop, synchronous AC motor, 33/45/78 powerful and with enough torque to keep constant speed for thread drive even with this massive platter. I'm afraid to say it but the combination of the new motor/motor controller and the built in upgrades will leave old one in the dust and that one is already head and shoulders above everything else. I know this because the first batch of the motors are already here, I was expecting an improvement over the original motor but never to the extent that I'm hearing, it's night and day. Unfortunately due to it's nature the entire production run will be limited to 4-6 units, each one individually hand machined. There are two coming in late November to early December, another two are planned for March-April and hopefully one or two sometime after that which I'll keep for myself so at least a couple will be available for sale. The first one is reserved by one of our friends here, he can spill the beans if he wants to now . Given today's market costs pricing is quite sane for what this turntable is, direct to end user will be in the AF-1 range but sonically and ergonomically it's in a very extra ordinary class. You might be interested in this there's also a smaller model coming, the AS-800. I already heard the prototype it's about similar size and with very comparable sound to the Micro Seiki SX-8000 mkII. Unfortunately this will also be a very limited run of only 8 for next year because they're also individually hand machined like the big ones, pricing for the AS-800 will be in the Kronos Pro range with motor controller.

    david
    Audio Industry Affiliate:Lamm, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformers, Pheonix Engineering.
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    System 1: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 1
    System 2: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 2- Near field setup

  7. #57
    Addicted to Best! PeterA's Avatar
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    Thank you David for those details. It sounds like a fun and worthwhile project. I wish I had the budget to consider either as an alternative to what I already own. I look forward to seeing the photographs of the finished tables and reports from the owners.
    My system link on WBF: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...-Sublime-Sound
    Analog: SME 30/12, SME V-12, My Sonic Labs Signature Gold, AirTight Supreme, VDH Colibri Platinum, MINT LP protractor
    Electronics: Pass Labs XA160.5 amp, XP-20 preamp, XP-25 phono, Cables: Transparent REF XL MM2,
    Speakers: Magico Mini II, Essentials: Jim Smith RoomPlay, 3 Vibraplanes, Dedicated circuits

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by awsmone View Post
    That's interesting

    What were your differences you perceived?

    As someone who back off from buying a AF1 after hearing 1, and 3 I am interested in your views?
    Well not taking notes at the time--but remembering the traits--having heard both tables before in other situ's

    my personal consensus is the MS has more depth to the playback--it just pushed more buttons with Moi!

    The AF sounded more "metallic " especially on strings--with these the MS lauded supreme.

    I listen to a lot of classical.

    Seriously both TT's are truly excellent and to split the hair--so to speak--

    is indeed fine line, so listen for yourself as someone as experienced as your good self I know will do.

    Good luck,

    BruceD

  9. #59
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    Dave, what a tease! LOL NOT!

  10. #60
    [Industry Expert] ddk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiritofmusic View Post
    Dave, what a tease! LOL NOT!
    Wait till you see and hear these babies !

    david
    Audio Industry Affiliate:Lamm, Ortofon, ZYX, Keith Monks, Audio Desk, Jensen Transformers, Pheonix Engineering.
    Specialty & Unique Offerings: Vintage horn speakers, Vintage and Modern Turntables, Analog Accessories.

    System 1: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 1
    System 2: Horns+Tubes+Vinyl and digital too- Listening Room 2- Near field setup

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