Techdas Air Force 3 VS Clearaudio Master Innovation

mikem

Well-Known Member
Mar 11, 2014
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298
"I now have the only AF 1.5..."

Do you believe your's will remain the only or do you think TechDas might offer the bearing and platter upgrade for other AF2s?
 

Tango

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Mar 12, 2017
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Is there an AF1 Black Series? :p
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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"I now have the only AF 1.5..."

Do you believe your's will remain the only or do you think TechDas might offer the bearing and platter upgrade for other AF2s?

It is being looked into by TechDAS :)
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Maril555

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2014
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370
Not really, what I heard was a coloured sound almost without bass. Again, this is only in comparison to the AF2. I do not have much experience with TTs, so maybe this is how a 28K TT is supposed to sound in comparison to a 54K one. Maybe, it's a lack of suspension in AF3, and if you put on a proper TT platform, it would sound more neutral.

I have to respectfully disagree.
I recently bought AF 3 and currently have it with Graham Elite tonearm and Kiseki Purple Heart cart.
One thing I can assure you of, there is no lack of bass whatsoever, purely objectively and in comparison to my previous Galibier Gavia 1.5 TT.
In terms of neutrality- it might be colored in comparison to much more expensive and more "neutral" tables, but I haven't heard any glaring colorations so far.
I want to emphasize my limited experience with having other tables in my own system.
I heard AF1 in 3 different systems, and it sounds different in every one of them (obviously), so it's hard to draw conclusions about it's "neutrality"
 
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PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
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I have to respectfully disagree.
I recently bought AF 3 and currently have it with Graham Elite tonearm and Kiseki Purple Heart cart.
One thing I can assure you of, there is no lack of bass whatsoever, purely objectively and in comparison to my previous Galibier Gavia 1.5 TT.
In terms of neutrality- it might be colored in comparison to much more expensive and more "neutral" tables, but I haven't heard any glaring colorations so far.
I want to emphasize my limited experience with having other tables in my own system.
I heard AF1 in 3 different systems, and it sounds different in every one of them (obviously), so it's hard to draw conclusions about it's "neutrality"

Maril, were you able to isolate the sound of the AF1 in each of those three systems? I have always found that to be extremely difficult, especially if there was no switching of source components and direct comparisons made. I have often incorrectly attributed something like "lack of bass" to an analog front end (turntable, arm, or cartridge) until the tonearm was adjusted for better VTA/SRA or cartridge loading was adjusted and then suddenly things sound much better. If the owner is unwilling to play around with it during the demo or simply has little experience with this, one can easily reach unfair conclusions. Then there is the distinction of bass "quality" versus bass "quantity". I have never heard the AF3, but I would tend to agree with you that it can not be highly "colored or almost without bass." That just doesn't make sense from such a serious design effort. I suppose it lacks some bass quality and extension compared to its more expensive sibling the AF2.
 

Maril555

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2014
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370
Maril, were you able to isolate the sound of the AF1 in each of those three systems? I have always found that to be extremely difficult, especially if there was no switching of source components and direct comparisons made. I have often incorrectly attributed something like "lack of bass" to an analog front end (turntable, arm, or cartridge) until the tonearm was adjusted for better VTA/SRA or cartridge loading was adjusted and then suddenly things sound much better. If the owner is unwilling to play around with it during the demo or simply has little experience with this, one can easily reach unfair conclusions. Then there is the distinction of bass "quality" versus bass "quantity". I have never heard the AF3, but I would tend to agree with you that it can not be highly "colored or almost without bass." That just doesn't make sense from such a serious design effort. I suppose it lacks some bass quality and extension compared to its more expensive sibling the AF2.
I never even tried to. I completely agree with you- if more, than one parameter of the system changes, then it becomes an exercise in futility.
And I agree with you on the other point- AF 3 is just a more economical version of AF 1 and 3, designed by the same person, and benefitting from a "trickle down" technology, implemented in more expensive model.
I doubt, Tech Das would have released a product with " great colorations and almost no bass"
My personal impressions so far, are fairly similar to all the AF 3 reviews, that I've read.
It certainly makes an impression of a highly engineered piece of equipment and the sound reflects that impression- well organized, refined and organic.
I don't want to mention all the "audiophile" descriptors- they are all there in spades.
And again, at this price point?
 

abeidrov

VIP Donor
Dec 17, 2015
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I have to respectfully disagree.
I recently bought AF 3 and currently have it with Graham Elite tonearm and Kiseki Purple Heart cart.
One thing I can assure you of, there is no lack of bass whatsoever, purely objectively and in comparison to my previous Galibier Gavia 1.5 TT.
In terms of neutrality- it might be colored in comparison to much more expensive and more "neutral" tables, but I haven't heard any glaring colorations so far.
I want to emphasize my limited experience with having other tables in my own system.
I heard AF1 in 3 different systems, and it sounds different in every one of them (obviously), so it's hard to draw conclusions about it's "neutrality"
Maril, congratulations on the new table, glad to hear, that you are enjoying it.
My comments were only in comparison to the AF2. Maybe “lack of bass” is too strong a statement, but the AF3 definitely sounded lighter than the AF2. Is your table placed on some sort of an isolation platform?
 

howiebrou

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2012
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Maril,

As a new owner of the AF3 (you, not me!) I would be very interested in your experience in terms of set up, arms and carts you have on and whether you have attempted to isolate the table given the missing suspension from the bigger brothers.

thanks

howie
 

Maril555

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2014
371
329
370
Maril, congratulations on the new table, glad to hear, that you are enjoying it.
My comments were only in comparison to the AF2. Maybe “lack of bass” is too strong a statement, but the AF3 definitely sounded lighter than the AF2. Is your table placed on some sort of an isolation platform?

The table is on SRA Scuttle rack
 

gian60

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
2,503
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I am happy to hear this because also I am interesting to buy AF3 with Elite
 

Maril555

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2014
371
329
370
Maril,

As a new owner of the AF3 (you, not me!) I would be very interested in your experience in terms of set up, arms and carts you have on and whether you have attempted to isolate the table given the missing suspension from the bigger brothers.

thanks

howie

With regards to the set-up- it's very straightforward and fairly easy. I like the ability to height- adjust 4 feet.
It also allows for a calibration of the belt tension- the initial part of the process is done manually, and then the rest of it accomplished electronically,
locking in correct speed for any given tension.
At the same time, it allows you to "play" with different belt tension values, something, I haven't done yet.
The air floating platter and suction pump is extremely quiet and vibration free (to a degree). I haven't experimented with the pump isolation yet.
As I mentioned in another post, the table is on SRA Scuttle rack, that should in theory provide a stable platform and an isolation from vibration.
Articulating armboards is a very flexible way of setting spindle-to pivot distance, and, as you know, there are 4 of them (imagine the possibilities).
TechDas can supply armboards for 9-10" arms, and a different size for 12" ones.
I have 10" Graham Phantom Elite on it now, and ordered an armboard for my 12" Reed 3P, that I had before.
I personally am very interested in comparing these two arms on the same table with the same cartridge (NS Kiseki Purple Heart).
Overall, Air Force 3 gives an impression of a very well engineered piece of equipment, something, that I cannot say about some other TT's, I had in my system previously.
 

howiebrou

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2012
2,789
3,635
1,470
With regards to the set-up- it's very straightforward and fairly easy. I like the ability to height- adjust 4 feet.
It also allows for a calibration of the belt tension- the initial part of the process is done manually, and then the rest of it accomplished electronically,
locking in correct speed for any given tension.
At the same time, it allows you to "play" with different belt tension values, something, I haven't done yet.
The air floating platter and suction pump is extremely quiet and vibration free (to a degree). I haven't experimented with the pump isolation yet.
As I mentioned in another post, the table is on SRA Scuttle rack, that should in theory provide a stable platform and an isolation from vibration.
Articulating armboards is a very flexible way of setting spindle-to pivot distance, and, as you know, there are 4 of them (imagine the possibilities).
TechDas can supply armboards for 9-10" arms, and a different size for 12" ones.
I have 10" Graham Phantom Elite on it now, and ordered an armboard for my 12" Reed 3P, that I had before.
I personally am very interested in comparing these two arms on the same table with the same cartridge (NS Kiseki Purple Heart).
Overall, Air Force 3 gives an impression of a very well engineered piece of equipment, something, that I cannot say about some other TT's, I had in my system previously.

Sounds like you're onto a winner there with a myriad of possibilities. Congrats and keep us updated along your arm board journey!

Howie
 

gian60

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
2,503
1,943
343
Some news with new AF3 Premium?
If AF3 was far in the sound from AF2 like someone tested,AF3 Premium will be near and interesting
 

marmota

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2016
260
247
175
Hi Peter,

You might be interested in this there's also a smaller model coming, the AS-800. I already heard the prototype it's about similar size and with very comparable sound to the Micro Seiki SX-8000 mkII. Unfortunately this will also be a very limited run of only 8 for next year because they're also individually hand machined like the big ones, pricing for the AS-800 will be in the Kronos Pro range with motor controller.

david

Sorry for replying to such an old post, but what happened to the AS-800?
Just curiosity btw, but would love to know more about it.
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
Sorry for replying to such an old post, but what happened to the AS-800?
Just curiosity btw, but would love to know more about it.
The design is finished but it's sidelined for now while we're working on a major new turntable, maybe after that but I'm not sure we have to see the market conditions.

david
 

Lagonda

VIP/Donor
Feb 3, 2014
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The design is finished but it's sidelined for now while we're working on a major new turntable, maybe after that but I'm not sure we have to see the market conditions.

david
With your level of customer support and free upgrades, you can not afford to offer a cheaper TT David ;)
 
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