Zero Distortion: Dohmann Helix 1 with Schroeder CB + MSL, Kuzma 4p + GFS, TAD Ref One, VTL, MSB

Tbzc

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Feb 4, 2011
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Tbzc, did you demo the Helix versus a similarly specced and priced DD like the GPA Monaco 2.0?
No doubt those aficionados of mon wavering piano notes get the same satisfaction from DD as you do from yr belt drive.
I'm curious that the Dohmann website mentions a more comprehensive method of measuring speed fluctuations and correcting them than the Monaco, despite having umpteen measurements per revolution as standard btwn the Helix and Monaco.
I'd just like someone to explain how they differ in speed correction proceedure at this point.

No, I did not. I wish I would. The Monaco was actually recommended to me by one famous reviewer. At the end of a day I did not go down that route because I have read some reviews saying it is cold, thin.

I can not comment on how Dohmann control the speed but it is interesting that they use extremelly short belts, 2 of them with different thickness. Maybe this is also important, apart of its computer controlled speed correction.

But like Keith R said, it is very hard to compare analog and isolate the impact of table, arm, cart, wire and cable. Plus isolation under TT. And if you would do that you have to be very masterful to optimize the setup of vta, azimuth etc for each cart... But I strongly believe that you can balance the sound of your analog system to your preferences as long as the basic functionality (like speed) is ok.

For me changing a cart is a mental and physical project ;)
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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No, I did not. I wish I would. The Monaco was actually recommended to me by one famous reviewer. At the end of a day I did not go down that route because I have read some reviews saying it is cold, thin.

I can not comment on how Dohmann control the speed but it is interesting that they use extremelly short belts, 2 of them with different thickness. Maybe this is also important, apart of its computer controlled speed correction.

But like Keith R said, it is very hard to compare analog and isolate the impact of table, arm, cart, wire and cable. Plus isolation under TT. And if you would do that you have to be very masterful to optimize the setup of vta, azimuth etc for each cart... But I strongly believe that you can balance the sound of your analog system to your preferences as long as the basic functionality (like speed) is ok.

For me changing a cart is a mental and physical project ;)

comparing cartridges is a challenge.

I have two 12" Durand Tone arms on my NVS DD tt; one a standard Telos with the composite arm, the other the Sapphire version with composite arm. their tonearm cables are different. then I have the darTZeel preamp with 2 identical internal phono stages. the Sapphire arm is better, so I can switch the cartridges back and forth and get a pretty good idea of what is doing what. if one cartridge is better on the standard Telos then it's better. the system does tell me what is going on and expansive, neutral and full range enough to uncover stuff.
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Mike, have you found any cartridge on the Telos to be better than a cart on the Sapphire?
 

Mike Lavigne

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Mike, have you found any cartridge on the Telos to be better than a cart on the Sapphire?

I installed the Goldfinger Statement originally on the Standard Telos, with my MC Anna on the Sapphire. after the first 20-30 hours in I did prefer the GFS to the Anna overall. then at 50 hours I switched them putting the GFS on the Sapphire, and after that the delta in favor of the GFS jumped up a notch or two. you heard the GFS with about 70-80 hours on it. later; at about 120 hours the bass came in on the GFS. during that time period the Anna had about 400 hours.

later; a friend who also owned an Anna heard the GFS in my system (compared to my Anna), so wanted to make sure my Anna was ok....and brought over his Anna to compare to the GFS to make sure. in my system and on the standard Telos he preferred my Anna to his.....but also preferred the GFS to both as you and I had.

I still enjoy the Anna and it has it's attributes......and is an outstanding cartridge. but the GFS is at that tip top level (with an appropriate almost double the Anna price tag), where in the right system it can do everything.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Tbzc, I believe the "cold" description of the Monaco was Mikey Fremer's opinion of the original GPA 1.0 in 2008.
I remember the review, it caused a lot of consternation, since user reviews in the field hardly ever mentioned this negative, and Fremer has gone on to like other DDs like the Bardo.
I've heard the Monaco 1.5 at length on a few occasions and really rate it, no coldness perceived by me.
It does seem like the Monaco and Helix measure speed and correct variations differently, I'd love a comparison.
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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I had the Monaco table at my place for 3 months with Tri planer and Benz LP-S when I was looking after it for a friend.
No coldness from the Monaco and performance was excellent. No fan of Benz thou.
the clamp is a pita thou as I prefer my tables naked these days.
 

bonzo75

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Last edited:

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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I had the Monaco table at my place for 3 months with Tri planer and Benz LP-S when I was looking after it for a friend.
No coldness from the Monaco and performance was excellent. No fan of Benz thou.
the clamp is a pita thou as I prefer my tables naked these days.

How did Monaco compare to your Technics and Raven. Btw, what's the difference between your Technics and the Sp10 mk2
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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How did Monaco compare to your Technics and Raven. Btw, what's the difference between your Technics and the Sp10 mk2

The Monaco was let down with the hazy grey sounding Benz cartridge. Never heard a Benz I liked. I never got to try it with any other. It was definitely in the same class as my dd Pioneer Exclusive P3. At the time, my Raven did not have the Thales tonearm so sounded a little dark and slow in comparison.

I own the Technics SP10mk3 so can't comment re the mk2. The mk3 has an extremely powerful sound through the bottom end.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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XV, I also don't run a clamp.
My rim drive Salvation has delrin points bonded onto the 14" oversize Al platter that lps "sit" on, and there is no damping of any kind.
Fascinating to watch my 4" linear air arm "ride" less than perfectly flat lps.
What's the operational complexity w the Monaco clamp that puts you off?
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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Hi Spirit.

I hate screw down clamps ever since I owned a VPI TNT. The VPI record weight was a lot better. Couple that with the choice of the 3 small dampers, it made spinning records a bit of a pita. I understand the reasoning behind the 3 different dampers, however I own a record flattener so all my records are flat.

Cheers
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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XV, got that.
Record clamps, weights, periphery rings, vacuum hold down.
All have their place, but certainly add to pfaffing about.
It's bad enough we have to waste valuable time cleaning records and stylus LOL.
I believe the new Monaco 2.0, a SNIP at $38k has a "simpler" pressure LED system clamp that intelligently tells you how tight is tight enough.
Not sure if it dispenses w the different size washers.
 

hi5harry

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Sep 11, 2011
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IMG_3677.JPG
Sorry in advance for the bad pic. This is my Artemis TL-1 12 inch( in Ebony) with the Lyra Atlas mounted on it. I'm VERY happy with this combination!
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Nice Harry, since you have shun mooks, have you tried the shun Mook clamp, or the Dalby clamp?
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 24, 2015
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Another very interesting report, Kedar!
 

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