Audio Federation's small system

MrAudioFederation

Well-Known Member
Nope, we are no longer on the top of a mountain overlooking Boulder and Denver. We are in a plain old Eichler-style home in Palo Alto. Eichler homes are modestly sized, mid-century modern homes with great architecture [imo] and low-grade materials. The open floor plan tends to result in lots of small bedrooms. One of our small bedrooms is dedicated as our small system room.

The SMALL SYSTEM:

Audio Note UK "AN-E SEC Signature" speakers
Audio Note UK "Kegon" 300B SET monoblock amplifiers
Audio Note UK "Soro Phono SE" integrated
Audio Note UK "M2 Line Balanced" linestage
EMM Labs "XDS1" CD / SACD player
Rix Rax equipment rack



As you can see, a 100% Audio Note system plus the XDS1 player. We don't call this the Audio Note room because AN speakers would also work just fine in the larger 13x18 room. In fact later today we are probably moving the Kegon amplifiers and M2 pre [or, not shown, M9 Phono preamplifier] to put them on the Acapella Cellini High speakers in that room.

This is a small room. it is 10 feet 9 inches by 9 feet 10 inches. Small. Very small.

We originally had the bookcase of CDs in here. But we wanted seating for two people, and Neli likes to use nice upholstered chairs, for longer listening possibilities. So, no. No bookcase.

Sounds quite good in here, though. It takes awhile, but after several minutes there is this sense of intimacy and the sharing of a secret with the musicians while the rest of the world outside the door runs around like chickens being chased by Sylvester Stallone.

The only problem with this room is ergonomics. If we let the CDs get out of control. Or start leaving powercords around. It gets crowded in here real quick [see photo]. :)

The speakers [with crossovers in the stands underneath] are expensive-ish. $75K or so-ish. [Yeah. They sounds great on the similarly quite expensive Kegons in here. In such a small room, you really get to *hear* them up close and very personal].

We plan on migrating this to a Soro-driven system with $8K-ish Audio Note AN-E SPe HE high efficiency speakers [not that they are not all high-efficiency, these have the hemp drivers]. This would keep the system price in the $20K-30K-ish range. We had very good results with this smaller system in a large 15ft by 25ft room in Boulder. It is a good deal more visceral than the more expensive, much higher resolution AN system, but it was bouncy and alive and many more people could afford it and we really kind of got into it. It was really fun to listen to. For those times when perhaps you don't want an ultimate drug-like, mind-altering, life-changing listening experience [which is a real risk with the high-level Audio Note - don't say you weren't warned] - you just want to put on some tunes and enjoy the heck out of them.


IMG_9958-audio-federation-audio-note-room-1.jpg
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
181
458
La Jolla, Calif USA
Nope, we are no longer on the top of a mountain overlooking Boulder and Denver. We are in a plain old Eichler-style home in Palo Alto. Eichler homes are modestly sized, mid-century modern homes with great architecture [imo] and low-grade materials. The open floor plan tends to result in lots of small bedrooms. One of our small bedrooms is dedicated as our small system room.

The SMALL SYSTEM:

Audio Note UK "AN-E SEC Signature" speakers
Audio Note UK "Kegon" 300B SET monoblock amplifiers
Audio Note UK "Soro Phono SE" integrated
Audio Note UK "M2 Line Balanced" linestage
EMM Labs "XDS1" CD / SACD player
Rix Rax equipment rack



As you can see, a 100% Audio Note system plus the XDS1 player. We don't call this the Audio Note room because AN speakers would also work just fine in the larger 13x18 room. In fact later today we are probably moving the Kegon amplifiers and M2 pre [or, not shown, M9 Phono preamplifier] to put them on the Acapella Cellini High speakers in that room.

This is a small room. it is 10 feet 9 inches by 9 feet 10 inches. Small. Very small.

We originally had the bookcase of CDs in here. But we wanted seating for two people, and Neli likes to use nice upholstered chairs, for longer listening possibilities. So, no. No bookcase.

Sounds quite good in here, though. It takes awhile, but after several minutes there is this sense of intimacy and the sharing of a secret with the musicians while the rest of the world outside the door runs around like chickens being chased by Sylvester Stallone.

The only problem with this room is ergonomics. If we let the CDs get out of control. Or start leaving powercords around. It gets crowded in here real quick [see photo]. :)

The speakers [with crossovers in the stands underneath] are expensive-ish. $75K or so-ish. [Yeah. They sounds great on the similarly quite expensive Kegons in here. In such a small room, you really get to *hear* them up close and very personal].

We plan on migrating this to a Soro-driven system with $8K-ish Audio Note AN-E SPe HE high efficiency speakers [not that they are not all high-efficiency, these have the hemp drivers]. This would keep the system price in the $20K-30K-ish range. We had very good results with this smaller system in a large 15ft by 25ft room in Boulder. It is a good deal more visceral than the more expensive, much higher resolution AN system, but it was bouncy and alive and many more people could afford it and we really kind of got into it. It was really fun to listen to. For those times when perhaps you don't want an ultimate drug-like, mind-altering, life-changing listening experience [which is a real risk with the high-level Audio Note - don't say you weren't warned] - you just want to put on some tunes and enjoy the heck out of them.


View attachment 34942

Your room size is similar to mine...i.e., very small. However, I have the luxury of a vault ceiling in mine. Cannot tell if you do or not? The vault allows for a significant increase in the volume.
I know that Audio note speakers are supposed to be placed in the corners and towards the back wall, however, I would question how they would sound in this room if one were to pull them away from the corners and the rear wall...and essentially give them a little room to breathe. May be worth an experiment.
BTW, I have found extensive room acoustic treatments to work wonders in a room of this size, may want to try that also.:cool:
 

MrAudioFederation

Well-Known Member
Your room size is similar to mine...i.e., very small. However, I have the luxury of a vault ceiling in mine. Cannot tell if you do or not? The vault allows for a significant increase in the volume.
I know that Audio note speakers are supposed to be placed in the corners and towards the back wall, however, I would question how they would sound in this room if one were to pull them away from the corners and the rear wall...and essentially give them a little room to breathe. May be worth an experiment.
BTW, I have found extensive room acoustic treatments to work wonders in a room of this size, may want to try that also.:cool:


Good point, Davey. We should include ceiling heights in the dimensions. We are not so lucky as you, and ceilings just under 8 feet.

Yeah, seeing speakers in the corners takes some getting used to [it sure did for us]. Pulling them out almost always causes the "where's the subwoofer?" bass and "grab your seat" dynamics to be reduced to that which a normal 2-way speaker would have. It does let them 'breathe' a little, and the shine a spotlight on imaging which is out-of-this-world [better than that of the 1 inch diamond tweeter on the Kharma Mini Exquisites, itself an awesome imaging monster]. We ourselves have come to prefer the dynamics and full-range of the firmly-in-the-corner-placement, and most [but not all!] people seem to respond more favorably to this sound as well. And super-natural imaging, albeit enjoyable [to us], is often a little artificial to some ears [to us too :)].

We typically eschew room treatments of any sort [besides the floor carpet you see there], but yeah, mostly boring white walls, small room, your suggestion makes some sense.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
181
458
La Jolla, Calif USA
Here's the thing of it...in this hobby experimentation can pay dividends, sometimes big dividends. Sometimes none. But it is easy to do and I have found that many times what we think is a 'dialed-in' system is in fact far from it. If it doesn't work out, then going back to the old set-up is usually pretty easy to do. A few years back, I was at an audio show where the exhibitor had placed their speakers in a position that I felt was probably far from optimal. I suggested to him to move them out and re-position them...he would have none of this. ( told me he had been setting up this gear for years and knew exactly what was best!) I left the room, but returned the next day to be greeted by a different room host. I suggested the same thing and he complied. It wasn't more than a few minutes before the room filled up and everyone was commenting on how much better the room sounded. To my ears there really was no comparison between the old set-up and the new...the imaging expanded in all directions and the bass gained a foundation in the new set up. Funnily enough when I returned one last time, the original exhibitor was back...and the set-up remained the new one. I didn't hear one word about the sound, but he certainly wasn't complaining, LOL.:rolleyes:
 

DSkip

Industry Expert
Aug 26, 2013
442
194
350
Arlington, TX
www.audiothesis.com
My room is 17'x20'x10', but my previous demo space in my house was a 12'x14'x8' room. I love the new room and the ability to showcase larger speakers from the brands, but there are days I miss that intimacy of a small room with smaller towers or excellent standmount speakers.

I visited a client tonight and he was getting some of this intimacy in his setup. It took me much too long to leave his house after the music started flowing. I just didn't want to walk away.

I wish I had a small room like yours I could use for a similar style setup. Have fun with it!
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
181
458
La Jolla, Calif USA
I do agree that in a small room one of the BIG benefits is the ability for the system to sound intimate. This is one thing that I usually miss in larger rooms. It is a great plus. Unfortunately, the one thing that the smaller room typically lacks is the ability to present 'Scale'. Although this is sometimes speaker dependent, IME every speaker that I have heard that works well ( or could work well) in a small room, is going to struggle with that aspect. Very low bass reproduction is also extremely hard to reproduce in a small room. Trade-off's and the like...this is the hobby. Nonetheless, intimacy is a very nice attribute to have...and very high on my list of what makes a great sounding system.
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
8,681
4,470
963
Greater Boston
I do agree that in a small room one of the BIG benefits is the ability for the system to sound intimate. This is one thing that I usually miss in larger rooms. It is a great plus. Unfortunately, the one thing that the smaller room typically lacks is the ability to present 'Scale'. Although this is sometimes speaker dependent, IME every speaker that I have heard that works well ( or could work well) in a small room, is going to struggle with that aspect. Very low bass reproduction is also extremely hard to reproduce in a small room. Trade-off's and the like...this is the hobby. Nonetheless, intimacy is a very nice attribute to have...and very high on my list of what makes a great sounding system.

I have argued several times that the ideal, if you have sufficient resources, would be two systems in two different size rooms, one for more intimate music, and one for large-scale music. It is no coincidence that many famous concert venues have a 'large hall' and a 'small hall'.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
181
458
La Jolla, Calif USA
I have argued several times that the ideal, if you have sufficient resources, would be two systems in two different size rooms, one for more intimate music, and one for large-scale music. It is no coincidence that many famous concert venues have a 'large hall' and a 'small hall'.

Great point, Al.
Unfortunately, I think the large room is much more difficult to acquire than the small room....and typically much more $$. ( At least where I live in S.Calif).
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
8,681
4,470
963
Greater Boston
Great point, Al.
Unfortunately, I think the large room is much more difficult to acquire than the small room....and typically much more $$. ( At least where I live in S.Calif).

And Audio Federation has a large system too, as also posted here in Member's Gallery. Two room sizes, two systems. Well done!
 

MrAudioFederation

Well-Known Member
And Audio Federation has a large system too, as also posted here in Member's Gallery. Two room sizes, two systems. Well done!

:) Thanks, Al.

It is the Goldilocks principle of room allocations for the home.

A small system - almost always the least expensive [I have been told that the smaller, less expensive smaller Audio Note J speakers can work quite well in rooms this size as well]. But for some people this is just a little too small and intimate.

A large system - perhaps taking over a large basement or massive livingroom that is 20 feet by 27 feet or larger with at least 8 foot ceilings. This should be able to create life-sized live-concert-scale presentations . But for some people this is too large and overwhelming [and expensive]

A medium system [guess you can figure out where we are going with this :)]. Our large room is actually more a medium-size room but would be considered large in most heavily populated areas of the world. 13 feet by 18 feet or more, sloping ceilings from about 7.5 to 9 feet or more. We took over our average-sized [hereabouts] livingroom and dedicated it to audio gear and seating. This system is not too large, and not too small. The vast majority of floor-standing loudspeakers work, in all sorts of price ranges, and the presentation is psychologically accessible and convincing enough to be quite enjoyable.

It is a lot easier to have a full Goldilocks-style audiophile home in parts of the country where the price per square foot of a home is not so ridiculously expensive that it makes audio gear seem really quite affordable. ;-)
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing