A vinyl-phile's dilemma re digitally mastered new music - to buy on lp or cd/streaming

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,606
5,415
1,278
E. England
Ok, this is not a thread about audiophile reissues, many of which I feel are overpriced cons.
It's whether by definition new music, especially ambient, electronica, dance etc, that is DDD thruout the recording/mixing/mastering chain, is better bought on digital media, cd or streaming, or whether lp is still where it's at.
Obv from the point of view of someone who is still fully invested in lp as a format.
Are there any lp guys out there who actively choose NOT to buy new DDD music on vinyl?
London Grammar and Adele 25, both I believe are DDD, and both slay cd/streamed (Adele I know for a fact, L Grammar reliably reported to me by Audiophile Bill).
An awful lot of new music I'm interested in is getting deluxe treatments on vinyl, and cd to some extent, and I'm wondering if I should stick to theory and keep analog lp for analog recordings, and cd for pure DDD.
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
3,711
723
1,200
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
It really depends on how much you like the album itself. Some I'd buy the LP, some I'd just keep the hi-res. If it's something I feel I actually need the physical artifact for complete enjoyment, then I get the LP. Otherwise, I'm happy with the download, and to a lesser extent, just streaming it off a service.


cheers,
alex
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,606
5,415
1,278
E. England
Sure Alex.
Btw, thanks for your advice recently re streaming options and philosophy, much appreciated, and much food for thought.
My q was more whether a purely DDD new recording by definition is better suited to digital media, and in fact may be badly served by the lp version.
I'm sure I've seen comments on forums from died in the wool lp nuts who buy new music only on digital, purely on SQ terms.
Or maybe I imagined this.
 

Simon Moon

Well-Known Member
Apr 24, 2015
158
54
260
As much as I love vinyl, I can't see any reason to buy vinyl of music that has only ever been in the digital domain. Unless your motivation is collecting.

I am not even sure how I feel about vinyl cut from digital files.

So far, the only reissues on vinyl I've purchased, are from analog masters.
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
3,711
723
1,200
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
Sure Alex.
Btw, thanks for your advice recently re streaming options and philosophy, much appreciated, and much food for thought.
My q was more whether a purely DDD new recording by definition is better suited to digital media, and in fact may be badly served by the lp version.
I'm sure I've seen comments on forums from died in the wool lp nuts who buy new music only on digital, purely on SQ terms.
Or maybe I imagined this.

Well, I think it's important not to delude ourselves. While *some* DDD recordings *could* and *might* sound better on vinyl (due to offensive mastering on the digital), you shouldn't be buying DDD recordings on vinyl for the sound quality, but more for the whole package experience an LP provides.

I've done it before, so again, this is my take on things, this is how I do both, digital and analog, coexisting peacefully :) I like to stare at shelves full of LPs, some possibly rare artifacts, and take the time to decide which one I'm going to pull. But I also do like to sift through my thousands of great DDD recordings with Roon too, and find that odd record, possibly a guilty pleasure, that I haven't heard in forever.
 

still-one

VIP/Donor
Aug 6, 2012
1,633
150
1,220
Milford, Michigan
Why wouldn't some vinyl enthusiasts play digitally sourced vinyl releases. Many of them wax poetically about enjoying the whole process of listening to vinyl. From carefully removing the album from its sleeve, making sure it is clean then carefully placing the lp on the platter, dropping the cartridge onto the groove then sitting back and reading that large cover while they listen to those filler tracks to hear the music just the way the artist wanted us to. All of that takes place no matter the provenance of the recording.
 

cjfrbw

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
3,325
1,316
1,730
Pleasanton, CA
Well, you still get the "electro-mechanical" effect with vinyl playback, which is kind of nice in and of itself even with the various and sundry masterings and music styles. With vinyl, the medium IS the message to some extent.

I haven't heard too many re-issues that I would prefer over a G to VG original.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
181
458
La Jolla, Calif USA
This is an interesting question. I personally stay away (generally)from reissues if they were originally recorded in the digital domain. Otoh, as an example of a digital recording that sounds great on vinyl, I would submit the MFSL recording of Alison Krause and Union Station. Although I do hear the digital artifacts...to a minimal extent with this recording, the music and the overall sound make it a true winner. However, would I buy an expensive reissue, like the upcoming MFSL one -step of "Donald Fagan, the Nightfly", which was originally recorded digitally...No. Too many other reissues that can attack the pocket book that are pure analog.
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
Ok, this is not a thread about audiophile reissues, many of which I feel are overpriced cons.
It's whether by definition new music, especially ambient, electronica, dance etc, that is DDD thruout the recording/mixing/mastering chain, is better bought on digital media, cd or streaming, or whether lp is still where it's at.
Obv from the point of view of someone who is still fully invested in lp as a format.
Are there any lp guys out there who actively choose NOT to buy new DDD music on vinyl?
London Grammar and Adele 25, both I believe are DDD, and both slay cd/streamed (Adele I know for a fact, L Grammar reliably reported to me by Audiophile Bill).
An awful lot of new music I'm interested in is getting deluxe treatments on vinyl, and cd to some extent, and I'm wondering if I should stick to theory and keep analog lp for analog recordings, and cd for pure DDD.

Vinyl isn't a new fad for me and I wouldn't bother with it if not for analog richness I buy the CD when it's digital, sure there's a tonal difference but it's essence is still digital so I don't see the point. Of course the other benefit is thousands and thousands of titles available for next to nothing, downside is always space.

david
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Ok, this is not a thread about audiophile reissues, many of which I feel are overpriced cons.
It's whether by definition new music, especially ambient, electronica, dance etc, that is DDD thruout the recording/mixing/mastering chain, is better bought on digital media, cd or streaming, or whether lp is still where it's at.
Obv from the point of view of someone who is still fully invested in lp as a format.
Are there any lp guys out there who actively choose NOT to buy new DDD music on vinyl?
London Grammar and Adele 25, both I believe are DDD, and both slay cd/streamed (Adele I know for a fact, L Grammar reliably reported to me by Audiophile Bill).
An awful lot of new music I'm interested in is getting deluxe treatments on vinyl, and cd to some extent, and I'm wondering if I should stick to theory and keep analog lp for analog recordings, and cd for pure DDD.

This is an excellent question, and it applies to all music mediums/formats (not just LPs but also CDs, SACDs, FLAC/WAV hi-res audio files, tapes, etc.).
Of course it has been discussed in the past and still today it is even more relevant for all music lovers of all ages, from the new ones to the old hardcore ones.
Music recordings made today; if our search is for the medium(s) of our choice it is important to know how they are made the ones we buy from the record labels we buy with our money during our lifetime here on Earth.

Vinyl; LP or CD streaming?

Yesterday I was researching about the state of the LP made today but something came up that cut me short (health issue).
I have all Adele music recordings on CDs but I am not satisfy with their sound quality; I like her though, the reason why I have all of her in my less than satisfactory digital music collection (physical software).

Here are two links (free internet info):
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3097423
http://www.recordingmag.com/resources/resourceDetail/113.html

For the people who can afford the best, the time to investigate how today the LP is derived from is of prime importance.
We are talking today, not yesterday when LP was the main dominant music format, before cassette tapes, before DAT and before CDs.
* Open-reel-tape is for its own thread as it is a format of higher quality and calibration, and much more expensive today.

We remember the CDs of yesterday (from 1983) and their codes: DDD, ADD, AAD, ...
LPs don't have those codes, and CDs not anymore. To find out how they are made today we have to search each record label and know how their recording/mixing/mastering engineers use the tools they are using, for each phase from the mics to the final stage.

We also know that vinyl is an art in producing/manufacturing. It requires high knowledge/expertise/dedication, and it costs more money too (go to your music store and compared prices of new LPs versus new CDs). I did and I mentioned it before (the difference is on average twice more expensive for a new LP, and up to three times more, like $15 versus $45).
Second-hand stores are different and it's nor the subject here; which is NEW music in the year 2017.
When I was buying new LPs back then (late 60s early 70s) for $4.99 Canadian ($2.99 and $3.99 before my time), today is no more; how they are made and how much they cost.
When I started buying CDs back then (mid 80s) for $10-15, today is still the same, much less expensive now. Before it was the digital corruption, today the digital corruption we know where it is.

Cost relevance (past vs today):

In 1970 a new house cost $23,400.00 USD
In 1970 the average income per year was $9,350.00
In 1970 a gallon of gas was 36 cents
The average ticket price for a film in 1971 was $1.65
The average price for an album in 1970 was $3.00
Datsun 210 $3,869

If you have $100 Converted from 1970 to 2005 it would be equivalent to $517.65 today.

So, that would mean, in todays market, an album would have cost $15.53.

_____

This is a vast subject because of today's music business involvement. The competition for the $$ is fierce as ever, just like when CDs came up; the smaller practical and portable music format (MP3's father and mother). Cars in the 70s; 8-track tapes.

The younger people around me, music lovers? ...Their music collection is in their iPhones. ...They plug it @ home and in their cars.
The rest of us we simply live in the past with what we still have left. We are so lonely that we visit the best audio/music forums of the internet highway to discover new music and new quality music recordings on the formats of our choice.
Tidal is CD quality and costs only what...$20/month? And the people behind Tidal and the music selection are for us to accommodate or not our lifestyle.

So much music so little time.
 

daytona600

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2012
724
151
955
scotland
Have many modern records with a free CD & if the record was cut from 24/96 file from protools or DAW & the CD was 16/44.1 red book the Vinyl version will sound better
& some many cut from DSD , DXD , 24/192 sources

General rules apply if the Recording & Mastering are done correctly who cares if analogue or digital & 99% of recordings since the mid 80s are all digital anyway even analogue sourced 80s vinyl most cut on DMM lathes with digital not analogue preview heads
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
The 45rpm of If You Wait beats the CD by a mile. The 33 1/3 doesn't.

I buy all of my electronica .WAV downloaded now usually from Beatport. I arrange them on Pioneer Rekordbox where I can load them on a thumb drive for use on CDJ 2000 Nexus decks or SD cards for the car. I haven't loaded on my W20 yet but have them in my laptop with ROON.

I stopped buying vinyl of electronica when my fave dance music vinyl stores closed. I was pretty depressed when I last went to Amsterdam and Neuneustraat had no stores left. That was about 6 years ago. It was just taking too long for the good stuff to get pressed if ever.

Armada Music provides 24/96 only to their artists for their live performances. For everybody else, 16/44 only. Bummer.
 

Fiddle Faddle

Member
Aug 7, 2015
548
2
16
Australia
I think there was a similar discussion about this subject some months ago, though my perspective has not changed. If I pass on a classical "DDA" or "ADA" vinyl release, it isn't because of the digital component in the remastering chain - it is because it is a poor recording to begin with. Mind you, this applies to 24/96 remastering which luckily for me seems to be the defacto standard for many classical remasterings involving the digital domain. I would not be keen on buying vinyl derived from 16/44 masters. I'd much rather just buy the CD or download. The one exception I make are any Mercury Living Presence reissues via the Universal catalogue.

Now I will certainly have a general preference for all analogue (all things being equal it usually is a bit better), but I will certainly not discount other titles - I judge them on the sonic merits of the source material. That my collection consists mainly of recordings made before 1982 is not a reflection so much on the technology used as it is the calibre of the recording engineers who worked from the 1950s to the early 1980s. And perhaps too the fact that orchestral violinists still mainly used wound gut strings versus synthetics (for non-string players, think of wound gut versus synthetic string sound as solid state versus single ended triode sound).

Actually my latest LP is a good case in point in terms of being open-minded. It is a just-released reissue of Du Pre's famous Elgar cello concerto interpretation with Barbirolli, along with Sea Pictures (Janet Baker). I also have an older all-analogue version of it, but this new one was from a 24/96 remastering made in 2011. The newer version (the 24/96) is simply better than the all-analogue one. Perhaps the digital domain afforded the remastering engineers certain freedoms and capabilities that eludes a pure analogue remastering / mastering chain.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing