Some Important News From Steve and Ron

RogerD

VIP/Donor
May 23, 2010
3,734
318
565
BiggestLittleCity
I have a 17 inch monitor and a iphone,on both I scroll down and don't experience any problems.
 

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microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
Interesting micro becsase im using my iPhone to type this and nothing is hidden

Sometimes I keep the forum window open in the background and from time to time I just press the activity stream button to know if something new happened. It si not possible any more. This is my current view, even when I try to preview before posting : :(

I only report because I feel that the current configuration will put people away from this great forum.
 

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treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
5,459
961
1,290
The tube lair in beautiful Rock Hill, SC
^^^That's what I see when I click new posts or activity stream^^^

FWIW, I am on a 26" monitor using the Windows 10 OS and all I get is a full page of advertising.

Can we get it down to one revolving advertising strip so that the tab will bring the members to where they want to go without the requirement of scrolling down? Admittedly, it is annoying Steve. If the advertisers don't agree to the new terms, lose them. There is no sense in catering to their needs if we lose members because of the inconvenience. The global announcement (advertising) would be fine on all pages but scrolling down just to see content for our members is a bit much to put up with TBH.

Perhaps smaller sidebar and/or top bar ads? Like maybe combining all 4 of the current ads into one long strip and when the member is interested, they can click onto the tabs (advertisements) and it links them directly to the website or link of their choice. So long as they don't have some annoying blinking going on to distract the reader...a full page of ads is a bit much. Especially after clicking on every new page/tab of the WBF.

Tom
 

RogerD

VIP/Donor
May 23, 2010
3,734
318
565
BiggestLittleCity
There is a possible programming and funds fix to this that other internet sites do. That is that for a nominal fee yearly the member see's no advertising. Just a idea or option to mull over.
 

SCAudiophile

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2010
1,156
435
1,205
Greer South Carolina (USA)
Test of my WBF's homepage (laptop, 15" screen, no Genesis ad on top):

Yes, this is ? what I get on each page.
Capture.JPG

Me too and on every single page. Seeing it once when you go to the site and having your entire screen filled I can understand; seeing it on every single page and having to scroll past it to see any thing else is more than too much.

Put their banner ads/logos at the top just like the Genesis sponsor logo, no bigger, please.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
I'm going to be even more precise; this is 100% what I'm seeing on every page:

Capture 2.jpg

* I don't know why I don't have the Genesis add?

** On my phone I get zero advertizing because I don't use it to post; I don't log in, ever. It's just too small; it hurts my eyes trying to type...I use my phone to make phone calls and to take some snapshots and to check the fake news occasionally...on global warming and other stuff from all over the world and beyond...in space.

*** This is only info I'm sharing here; this is not any sort of comment. I totally understand the situation, I'm 100% in accordance, and I understand also that it takes time to work things out for the best. I know we'll succeed because we have the right crop of people, plus the billions more who are just about to join in...from 13 to 99. :b
 

Barry2013

VIP/Donor
Oct 12, 2013
2,305
487
418
Essex UK
+1 Bob
That is what I get too.
Steve and Ron I deliberately held back from commenting earlier in order to see how it went,but I just find the ads to be a constant irritant and whilst I don't in any way question the sincerity of your efforts I would much prefer to dispense with them altogether.
I would be happy to support a modest subscription.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
12,522
10,688
3,515
USA
I commend Steve for starting this thread to announce the news about funding the site. It raises some questions and I'd like to mention my concerns. The interested parties used to be the owners, the members and the visitors. Now the advertisers have an interest. It may be a challenge to satisfy all of these interests at the same time. I want content to be free, however I realize there are costs involved with owning a website. I don't know what those costs are. On some level, it is none of my business. However, if Steve and Ron want to own this site and not incur costs, they have to find a way to subsidize their expenses, so suddenly, it is my business, and I have some questions. The donation button did not raise the required revenue to cover the costs. Selling ads may or may not do that either, and the site may loose readers in the process. I used to read Six Moons and was completely turned off by the published appeal to defend their choice to increase ad space. Then the ads came and I could not even see the content, so I left the site never to return. That is fine. They did not need me, and I realized that I did not need them.

I like WBF and think the content is the best of the web based audio sites. However, if the ads overwhelm the experience, I will loose interest pretty quickly, turn to other audio sites or just listen to more music. That is fine too. What I wonder about is this: have the costs to run WBF increased over time, and if so, why, by how much? I presume they have increased, because the costs of running the site did not seem to be an issue before. Now it is. Have the owners' goals changed? Has what was once a hobby turned into a business? I don't know. Are the owners trying to break even, or do they want, as Steve stated above, to earn enough revenue to cover costs and to travel to and report on the shows? Perhaps they want to earn a profit? Do the members want to subsidize this? The answers to these questions will influence how I feel about it all.

Steve and Ron have decided to solicit ads and then to tell the membership after the fact. They seem to welcome suggestions and comments. The comments seem pretty mixed. What I would like to know in addition to the questions I ask above is this: How much does it cost to run the site per regular member and is this amount worth it to the member to reimburse the owners in the form of an annual or monthly fee? Some would gladly pay the fee instead of looking at ads. Others would rather scroll past the ads to read the content to avoid paying for the site. It may be a difficult balance to strike.

I am willing to scroll past an ad or two, but I already find the four banners annoying. I don't know the cost per member so don't know if I would be willing to pay it in the form of a fee. Absent this information, I guess I will just wait to see how things develop and how the members will respond.
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
5,158
46
1,225
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
I would suggest that the bandwidth necessary to run a larger site (WBF has grown significantly) may cost more. Also, the forum used to be run at a loss, the owners paying for all the web services without any income at all. That's not a successful long-term situation. I would ask the membership to exercise patience as these issues are dealt with. The current page view is most likely not the final version. Thank you all for the constructive comments; they ARE taken seriously.

Lee
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
Eyeballs shocked but getting used to it. Makes me appreciate the gesture control on the new MBP more. Two quick swipes with two fingers and back to normal.

Plus:

Two swipes and back to normal programming.

Ads in the sides compress the usable text and pic space meaning a possible combination of reaching for the reading glasses and much more gestures for scroll, expand etc. So I like top and bottom banners a lot more.

Minuses

They are awfully large while Genesis' blends in too well and is almost camouflaged.


Wish list

If software can do it, the ideal for me would be max of two at the top dropping the gestures to one swipe and max two at the bottom between the reply to thread icon and the similar threads box. That would tidy things up a lot.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
Is it possible to do this:
- If you want WBF for free, the ads stay in whatever form Ownership determines
- If you want WBF ad-free, you pay your fair share of 'no ads' and then they dont appear when you log into WBF
- The more members pay for WBF ad-fee, the lower the per member cost?
 

BMCG

VIP/Donor
Oct 1, 2016
234
41
133
United Kingdom
Is it possible to do this:
- If you want WBF for free, the ads stay in whatever form Ownership determines
- If you want WBF ad-free, you pay your fair share of 'no ads' and then they dont appear when you log into WBF
- The more members pay for WBF ad-fee, the lower the per member cost?


+1
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
3,591
2,574
1,860
Sydney
Dear Members,

We want to let you know in advance that we have decided to contact high-end manufacturers, whose products we use ourselves and believe in, to subscribe for banner advertisements on the WBF website. The small revenue from these ads will allow us to defray the costs of attending audio shows and of operating WBF. Also, we hope this will allow us to avoid asking for periodic donations via the "donate" tab.

We are on the site many hours a day, and we, personally, do not want to wade through a blizzard of ads anymore than you do. We are going to be circumspect about the number of ads we sell and the quality of the companies who advertise.

Please do not hesitate to post or to ask us privately any questions you may have. Thank you in advance for your understanding. We intend to roll out these banner ads slowly over the next few weeks and will continue going forward.

With warmest regards,

Steve and Ron

Personally I find some ads no big deal if it is for the upkeep of the site.

One of the reasons I don't donate is that I don't like subsidizing the costs of going to audio shows.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I'd like to provide a brief update to members about concerns that have been echoed here. First of all let me start by first offering thanks from Ron and I about being patient with us as we sought a solution for the problem. Our biggest concern turned out to be when an advertiser wanted to place an ad on the home page the only way this could happen as we found out after the fact was if the ad was "global" and hence seen in the same place on every page in the forum. We agreed with everyone that this was somewhat tedious and did become an eyesore and members tended to react. Well it has taken us the entire past 3 days to find the solution with some extra code that was written during the past several hours.

What everyone will see now was exactly the way things were intended. The ads are now Only seen below the NavBar on the home page as well as in the footers of the corresponding relevant subforum which was what each advertiser had requested.

As things stand now we have no further plans to put more ads on the home page. Should this ever be considered we feel the best way to represent that without encroaching upon too much real estate on the home page is with the use of a "slider" but there are no plans for that at the moment

We hope that the way things are now are no longer cumbersome to the members and again we want to thank everyone for their input and suggestions a swell as being patient with us.

We also agree about the inadequacies and short comings of the vBulletin software. Many have suggested upgrade from VB4 to VB5 which we have been considering. My only thoughts with a major software upgrade is that we have found in the past that even with simple updates there are always problems with the end result. Suffice it to say though VB5 upgrade is something we are considering. For now however there should be no problems we are hoping with our end result.
 

jfrech

VIP/Donor
Sep 3, 2012
2,152
749
1,160
Austin
I'd like to provide a brief update to members about concerns that have been echoed here. First of all let me start by first offering thanks from Ron and I about being patient with us as we sought a solution for the problem. Our biggest concern turned out to be when an advertiser wanted to place an ad on the home page the only way this could happen as we found out after the fact was if the ad was "global" and hence seen in the same place on every page in the forum. We agreed with everyone that this was somewhat tedious and did become an eyesore and members tended to react. Well it has taken us the entire past 3 days to find the solution with some extra code that was written during the past several hours.

What everyone will see now was exactly the way things were intended. The ads are now Only seen below the NavBar on the home page as well as in the footers of the corresponding relevant subforum which was what each advertiser had requested.

As things stand now we have no further plans to put more ads on the home page. Should this ever be considered we feel the best way to represent that without encroaching upon too much real estate on the home page is with the use of a "slider" but there are no plans for that at the moment

We hope that the way things are now are no longer cumbersome to the members and again we want to thank everyone for their input and suggestions a swell as being patient with us.

We also agree about the inadequacies and short comings of the vBulletin software. Many have suggested upgrade from VB4 to VB5 which we have been considering. My only thoughts with a major software upgrade is that we have found in the past that even with simple updates there are always problems with the end result. Suffice it to say though VB5 upgrade is something we are considering. For now however there should be no problems we are hoping with our end result.

What I like about WBF and these ads...is you tell us why, when, your view of positives and minues. Lets us feel like we're part of the process and you listen. I don't mind the ads funding audio shows, you tend to post info fast and what you saw and your thoughts.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Thanks John

We always appreciate the candor of our members. We try to listen and provide solutions. I admit it was somewhat stressful this past weekend as we worked diligently to find the fix and to write the code

I notice that he is still working on the issues so the ads might come and go for a while as the final fixes are applied
 

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