CH Precision C1

gian60 · Jul 13, 2017

Someone did comparison between
CH C1 vs other top dac like Vivaldi,Trinity,Metronome,MBS,Lampizator,ecc?

bonzo75 · Jul 13, 2017

gian60 said:
Someone did comparison between
CH C1 vs other top dac like Vivaldi,Trinity,Metronome,MBS,Lampizator,ecc?

You know the Metronome. Next time I come over I will get the Lampi, we will listen at yours and Marco's and take it to compare to the Metronome. You can post your impressions then.

It killed the vivaldi. I used an external pre (AR Ref 6) in that compare, and Elberoth is doing one without an external pre where Vivaldi is better.

Also I have much better valves, kind of like better cartridges which help you improve performance in a way similar to matching the gain of the cart to the phono.

You can borrow the CH for the shootout

gian60 · Jul 13, 2017

For Lampi you are talking of Golden Gate?

bonzo75 · Jul 13, 2017

gian60 said:
For Lampi you are talking of Golden Gate?

yes

Legolas · Jul 13, 2017

gian60 said:
Someone did comparison between
CH C1 vs other top dac like Vivaldi,Trinity,Metronome,MBS,Lampizator,ecc?

I heard the C1 last year and it was good, but not my cup of tea. I found it too 'hifi' and there was some sibilance on female vocals and some rock material. I heard it via USB, but it is better via Ethernet apparently, so maybe if possible use Ethernet with it.

morricab · Jul 20, 2017

bonzo75 said:
You know the Metronome. Next time I come over I will get the Lampi, we will listen at yours and Marco's and take it to compare to the Metronome. You can post your impressions then.

It killed the vivaldi. I used an external pre (AR Ref 6) in that compare, and Elberoth is doing one without an external pre where Vivaldi is better.

Also I have much better valves, kind of like better cartridges which help you improve performance in a way similar to matching the gain of the cart to the phono.

You can borrow the CH for the shootout

We will probably compare the Golden Atlantic to the Kassandra in the near future...we already compared to a standard Atlantic and it was not very close...Atlantic was far behind...so much so that the owner complained to Lukasz and has now upgraded to a GA (Kassandra not really in his budget). We will see how much of the gap is closed.

bonzo75 · Jul 20, 2017

morricab said:
We will probably compare the Golden Atlantic to the Kassandra in the near future...we already compared to a standard Atlantic and it was not very close...Atlantic was far behind...so much so that the owner complained to Lukasz and has now upgraded to a GA (Kassandra not really in his budget). We will see how much of the gap is closed.

I have never heard an Atlantic, and the GG was far better than the GA on complex stuff. The GA does not have the same resolution, dynamics, extensions and bass.

As I said in my report, I preferred the Aries 40k dac to my GG with the EML mesh globe anniversary 45s, with a 242 GG was better on all aspects.

morricab · Jul 20, 2017

bonzo75 said:
I have never heard an Atlantic, and the GG was far better than the GA on complex stuff. The GA does not have the same resolution, dynamics, extensions and bass.

As I said in my report, I preferred the Aries 40k dac to my GG with the EML mesh globe anniversary 45s, with a 242 GG was better on all aspects.

Perhaps, but tube rolling is pretty subjective...you might prefer 242s but not all may agree with you. We will eventually get to compare to the GG...just need the time to set up the comparison... We have the 18K DAC though, not the 40K one. If it outperforms the GA then we will see if it stands up to the GG.

bonzo75 · Jul 20, 2017

morricab said:
Perhaps, but tube rolling is pretty subjective...you might prefer 242s but not all may agree with you. We will eventually get to compare to the GG...just need the time to set up the comparison... We have the 18K DAC though, not the 40K one. If it outperforms the GA then we will see if it stands up to the GG.

Get the 40k or the one over to Bill's in near London if you want to listen to why you would prefer the 242 Lampi to it

morricab · Jul 20, 2017

bonzo75 said:
Get the 40k or the one over to Bill's in near London if you want to listen to why you would prefer the 242 Lampi to it

I have access to a GG much closer than that. We will compare it there eventually or the GG at my place...or are you telling me that ONLY the 242 tubes are worthy??

morricab · Jul 20, 2017

bonzo75 said:
Get the 40k or the one over to Bill's in near London if you want to listen to why you would prefer the 242 Lampi to it

BTW, there are those who think the GA is a lot closer to the GA than you apparently do.

bonzo75 · Jul 20, 2017

morricab said:
BTW, there are those who think the GA is a lot closer to the GA than you apparently do.

Maybe. I don't. There is reason Lukas produced two dacs and priced one half of the other. Not to mention you cannot enhance the quality of the stock GA by tube rolling. And in case you are not as yet aware, tube rolling is not to just change flavors and colours. It makes serious difference to the output.

bonzo75 · Jul 20, 2017

morricab said:
I have access to a GG much closer than that. We will compare it there eventually or the GG at my place...or are you telling me that ONLY the 242 tubes are worthy??

No. I am saying only the GG is worthy. And with 242 it sounds much better than it does with the others. Kind of like you can get a Techdas, and you can run it with Audio Technica Art 9, Lyra delos, Lyra Atlas, etc etc...tubes are cartridges. You can have a good turntable and lesser ancillaries. It will sound good, not at its best.

morricab · Jul 20, 2017

bonzo75 said:
Maybe. I don't. There is reason Lukas produced two dacs and priced one half of the other. Not to mention you cannot enhance the quality of the stock GA by tube rolling. And in case you are not as yet aware, tube rolling is not to just change flavors and colours. It makes serious difference to the output.

I am aware of the claim that this is the case for this DAC but have not experienced the reality of what is claimed. For the Atlantic (not GA but a version with tube rectifier) we heard interesting differences between tube rectifiers but they did not fundamentally change the whole character of the DAC. One gave a bit better HF resolution, one a bit better soundstage depth etc. but not a wholesale, WOW this is way different/better!

Interestingly, I had for a small TV system once a Pure Sound A30 integrated...pretty good sounding little machine that responded pretty heavily to the rectifier tube...more so than to the input/driver tubes, which was a bit surprising and suggests maybe the regulation was inadequate because the power supply was being so strongly affected. Much bigger effect than we heard with the Atlantic. Funny enough the Chinese 5U4Gs equivalent were better sounding than the NOS Sylvania 5U4GBs. Only when I went to NOS Winged "C" 5U4Gs did the sound get better than the cheap and cheerful chinese ones.

Apparently, the E280F that Kassandras use (all levels) are highly variable in sound quality but it is still only one tube type and not many like the GG supports. Our current Kassandra has only about 2 or 3 out of 10 on the E280F scale (according to Aries Cerat). So, there is room to escalate its performance as well by tube rolling.

morricab · Jul 20, 2017

bonzo75 said:
Maybe. I don't. There is reason Lukas produced two dacs and priced one half of the other. Not to mention you cannot enhance the quality of the stock GA by tube rolling. And in case you are not as yet aware, tube rolling is not to just change flavors and colours. It makes serious difference to the output.

I am aware it is half the price but it would not be the first time a manufacturer made something for half the price with 90% (or 95%) the performance.

morricab · Jul 20, 2017

bonzo75 said:
No. I am saying only the GG is worthy. And with 242 it sounds much better than it does with the others. Kind of like you can get a Techdas, and you can run it with Audio Technica Art 9, Lyra delos, Lyra Atlas, etc etc...tubes are cartridges. You can have a good turntable and lesser ancillaries. It will sound good, not at its best.

Actually if you match it with a GREAT phonostage you will get more out of an ART 9 than you thought possible. If I was budget constrained (but then I wouldn't probably buy a Techdas) then I would pick a great phonostage over a great cartridge anyday.

Legolas · Aug 1, 2017

morricab said:
Apparently, the E280F that Kassandras use (all levels) are highly variable in sound quality but it is still only one tube type and not many like the GG supports. Our current Kassandra has only about 2 or 3 out of 10 on the E280F scale (according to Aries Cerat). So, there is room to escalate its performance as well by tube rolling.

Ehh? Why would anyone use a DAC costing north of 40K use anything less than the best (example) of that tube. This sounds ridiculous to me. Please clarify.

microstrip · Aug 1, 2017

morricab said:
(...) Apparently, the E280F that Kassandras use (all levels) are highly variable in sound quality but it is still only one tube type and not many like the GG supports. Our current Kassandra has only about 2 or 3 out of 10 on the E280F scale (according to Aries Cerat). So, there is room to escalate its performance as well by tube rolling.

Interesting - the E280F is an high quality pentode that can be bought at decent prices in Germany and is known to last for more than 10000 hours. Do they scale them according to listening tests or measurements?

Although every time we change tubes we are "tube rolling" there are two different kinds of rolling - using electrically similar tubes, so called "equivalent" that sound different because of different manufacturing techniques and materials, and using tubes with very different electrical specifications, that surely change significantly the electrical specifications of the equipment. As most users do not calibrate equipment - yes, I know you do it! - higher trans-conductance tubes are usually preferred if there are no saturation effects ...

morricab · Aug 3, 2017

microstrip said:
Interesting - the E280F is an high quality pentode that can be bought at decent prices in Germany and is known to last for more than 10000 hours. Do they scale them according to listening tests or measurements?

Although every time we change tubes we are "tube rolling" there are two different kinds of rolling - using electrically similar tubes, so called "equivalent" that sound different because of different manufacturing techniques and materials, and using tubes with very different electrical specifications, that surely change significantly the electrical specifications of the equipment. As most users do not calibrate equipment - yes, I know you do it! - higher trans-conductance tubes are usually preferred if there are no saturation effects ...

I believe noise and subjective sound quality. He wires them in triode and they are not used in pentode.

DaveC · Aug 3, 2017

morricab said:
I am aware of the claim that this is the case for this DAC but have not experienced the reality of what is claimed. For the Atlantic (not GA but a version with tube rectifier) we heard interesting differences between tube rectifiers but they did not fundamentally change the whole character of the DAC. One gave a bit better HF resolution, one a bit better soundstage depth etc. but not a wholesale, WOW this is way different/better!

Interestingly, I had for a small TV system once a Pure Sound A30 integrated...pretty good sounding little machine that responded pretty heavily to the rectifier tube...more so than to the input/driver tubes, which was a bit surprising and suggests maybe the regulation was inadequate because the power supply was being so strongly affected. Much bigger effect than we heard with the Atlantic. Funny enough the Chinese 5U4Gs equivalent were better sounding than the NOS Sylvania 5U4GBs. Only when I went to NOS Winged "C" 5U4Gs did the sound get better than the cheap and cheerful chinese ones.

Apparently, the E280F that Kassandras use (all levels) are highly variable in sound quality but it is still only one tube type and not many like the GG supports. Our current Kassandra has only about 2 or 3 out of 10 on the E280F scale (according to Aries Cerat). So, there is room to escalate its performance as well by tube rolling.

With the Lampi DHT output section the tube's Rp (plate resistance) is the output impedance, which is generally much higher than typical and this can make a big difference in some systems depending on the preamp's input impedance. You'd also need to find the ideal bias for each tube type which isn't done afaik, so there are some factors that make tube rolling in such a circuit not necessarily applicable to everyone's situation.

CH Precision C1

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

VIP/Donor

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member Sponsor

Member Sponsor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

VIP/Donor

VIP/Donor

Well-Known Member

Industry Expert

Similar threads