Comparison: Schiit Yggdrasil DAC vs. Berkeley Alpha DAC 2

Blue58

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spiritofmusic

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Al, when I mentioned "sweeter" I didn't mean this as a euphonic colouration, more an absence of some of the harder attributes of other dacs in the price range
By all accounts, the Aqua is pretty neutral, just not as "warts and all" uber detail retrieving and maybe fatiguing long term as some
I don't incl Yggy in that category
-------
Barry, don't you just love the Web
I've never come across the Holo Spring
Looks like the Holo, plus Yggy and Aqua, is a good choice of quality dacs at the competitive $2-2.5k level
 

microstrip

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(...) I find that sustain/decay, harmonic texture, pluck/strike, scale/power/bloom and especially continuousness on piano seems to separate the men from the boys. it exposes the inner view to the music. and it's hard to hear these specific things differently. and these things seem to relate to the humanity and naturalness of a dac. (...)

+1!
Piano is particularly well served by top digital and can be very helpful to show differences in quick tests.
 

Al M.

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Al, when I mentioned "sweeter" I didn't mean this as a euphonic colouration, more an absence of some of the harder attributes of other dacs in the price range
By all accounts, the Aqua is pretty neutral, just not as "warts and all" uber detail retrieving and maybe fatiguing long term as some
I don't incl Yggy in that category

Thanks for clarifying, Mark.

I like that the Yggy has a remarkable freedom of certain digital artifacts, like the typical hardening of massed violins when played fortissimo, as I mentioned. I don't find it fatiguing at all either. However, it is very incisive and also faithfully portrays the natural hardness of certain instruments (e.g., brass) yet without artificial electronic harshness. Just like live music typically is not 'smooth', the Yggy certainly isn't 'smooth' either. As it should be, in my view.

In fact, I find myself in agreement with much of what Robert Harley writes in his review about the sound characteristics of the Yggy, now that it's broken in (not sure though about extra sibilance on voices as he describes). However, I don't believe for a moment that it can be as good as a dCS Vivaldi. I have heard the latter again at Ian's house two days ago, and it is an absolutely unbelievable DAC. I'd be hugely surprised if the Yggy came anywhere close.
 

PeterA

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Al, when I mentioned "sweeter" I didn't mean this as a euphonic colouration, more an absence of some of the harder attributes of other dacs in the price range
By all accounts, the Aqua is pretty neutral, just not as "warts and all" uber detail retrieving and maybe fatiguing long term as some
I don't incl Yggy in that category
-------
Barry, don't you just love the Web
I've never come across the Holo Spring
Looks like the Holo, plus Yggy and Aqua, is a good choice of quality dacs at the competitive $2-2.5k level

Neutral tonal balance and lack of digital artifacts which cause long term listening fatigue are fine. But if a component does not retrieve "warts and all uber detail", then it suffers from a lack of resolution, which is a deal breaker for me and one of the things which separates great vinyl from most digital, IMO. I'm sure cost causes some compromise, and this may be an example of it. The only DACs that I have heard that have a neutral tonal balance, vanishingly low distortion/fatigue and great degrees of information retrieval or resolution are the current dCS Rossini and Vivaldi, but they are expensive. I'm sure there are others, I have just not heard them.
 

PeterA

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Thanks for clarifying, Mark.

I like that the Yggy has a remarkable freedom of certain digital artifacts, like the typical hardening of massed violins when played fortissimo, as I mentioned. I don't find it fatiguing at all either. However, it is very incisive and also faithfully portrays the natural hardness of certain instruments (e.g., brass) yet without artificial electronic harshness. Just like live music typically is not 'smooth', the Yggy certainly isn't 'smooth' either. As it should be, in my view.

In fact, I find myself in agreement with much of what Robert Harley writes in his review about the sound characteristics of the Yggy, now that it's broken in (not sure though about extra sibilance on voices as he describes). However, I don't believe for a moment that it can be as good as a dCS Vivaldi. I have heard the latter again at Ian's house two days ago, and it is an absolutely unbelievable DAC. I'd be hugely surprised if the Yggy came anywhere close.

It might be interesting for you to take your DACs to Ian's or for him to bring his Vivaldi to your house for comparison. It's not like transporting a 110 lbs turntable.
 

Al M.

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It might be interesting for you to take your DACs to Ian's or for him to bring his Vivaldi to your house for comparison. It's not like transporting a 110 lbs turntable.

I don't want to get a Vivaldi shock at my house (can't afford it), but bringing the Yggy to Ian's house is an idea that we think about.
 

morricab

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Neutral tonal balance and lack of digital artifacts which cause long term listening fatigue are fine. But if a component does not retrieve "warts and all uber detail", then it suffers from a lack of resolution, which is a deal breaker for me and one of the things which separates great vinyl from most digital, IMO. I'm sure cost causes some compromise, and this may be an example of it. The only DACs that I have heard that have a neutral tonal balance, vanishingly low distortion/fatigue and great degrees of information retrieval or resolution are the current dCS Rossini and Vivaldi, but they are expensive. I'm sure there are others, I have just not heard them.

It depends if those warts are really on the recording or if they are self-inflicted...
 

ack

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So I as told Al right after the first track, initial impressions can be pretty powerful, and either totally right or completely wrong. To that extent, I flat out told him to 'pack up the Yggy and sell it'. I may still be totally wrong, but that initial impression did not change for the most part of the audition, and at one point I made the comment that I am listening to typical horns - colored and euphonic. Indeed, I felt the Yggy was trying hard to impress, though certain parts of the demo did sound really good, and in fact, at times better than the Berkeley in terms of slam and dynamics.

It was also obvious to me, yet again, that driving amps directly from the DAC ends up affecting microdyamics and resolution, as the user has to inevitably lower the digital volume on the DAC - so running the Berkeley through the Pass B1 and increasing its output level to 54.1 out of 60.0 as I play it at home increased resolution quite dramatically. I've done these direct-to-amp vs through-preamp comparisons at home numerous times, and they are unmistakable: a good preamp is absolutely necessary for best fidelity.

The Berkeley has its own problems, which is why I modified mine, and they are mostly around ultimate resolution, low-end control and macro-dynamics; all of these are addressed by my mods, and as I wrote in my own thread, I heard no difference between it and the Vivaldi 2.0 (though this may also mean my system is not the best in resolution). In the end, I agree with just about every one of Peter's observations of the two DACs, and I made just about the same comments to Al during the audition; I first saw Peter's comments later on.

If I were to describe some key aspects of the Yggy's sound, I'd say it's euphonic and forward, though greater in resolution than the Berkeley, and both with obvious shortcomings. Having said all this, the Yggy did impress me on my Pepe Romero Flamenco, just about to the same level as my modified Berkeley, though not with the same amount of slam on the foot stomping. My modified Alpha has a jump factor and presence on that CD and some others that it's wasn't there from either of Al's DACs.

The Yggy is not a bad DAC and it will surely fit well in a lot of systems, so perhaps it's all a matter of synergy. It's just that I preferred the Berkeley, even unmodified, perhaps because it also sounds more like my analog at home as well. Reflecting on myself, I do see a certain amount of bias towards the Berkeley because I've lived with it for so many years, so take all this with a grain of salt. If I were to make most-analog-like the top criterion, I would still have to go with the Berkeley.
 

morricab

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So I as told Al right after the first track, initial impressions can be pretty powerful, and either totally right or completely wrong. To that extent, I flat out told him to 'pack up the Yggy and sell it'. I may still be totally wrong, but that initial impression did not change for the most part of the audition, and at one point I made the comment that I am listening to typical horns - colored and euphonic. Indeed, I felt the Yggy was trying hard to impress, though certain parts of the demo did sound really good, and in fact, at times better than the Berkeley in terms of slam and dynamics.

It was also obvious to me, yet again, that driving amps directly from the DAC ends up affecting microdyamics and resolution, as the user has to inevitably lower the digital volume on the DAC - so running the Berkeley through the Pass B1 and increasing its output level to 54.1 out of 60.0 as I play it at home increased resolution quite dramatically. I've done these direct-to-amp vs through-preamp comparisons at home numerous times, and they are unmistakable: a good preamp is absolutely necessary for best fidelity.

The Berkeley has its own problems, which is why I modified mine, and they are mostly around ultimate resolution, low-end control and macro-dynamics; all of these are addressed by my mods, and as I wrote in my own thread, I heard no difference between it and the Vivaldi 2.0 (though this may also mean my system is not the best in resolution). In the end, I agree with just about every one of Peter's observations of the two DACs, and I made just about the same comments to Al during the audition; I first saw Peter's comments later on.

If I were to describe some key aspects of the Yggy's sound, I'd say it's euphonic and forward, though greater in resolution than the Berkeley, and both with obvious shortcomings. Having said all this, the Yggy did impress me on my Pepe Romero Flamenco, just about to the same level as my modified Berkeley, though not with the same amount of slam on the foot stomping. My modified Alpha has a jump factor and presence on that CD and some others that it's wasn't there from either of Al's DACs.

The Yggy is not a bad DAC and it will surely fit well in a lot of systems, so perhaps it's all a matter of synergy. It's just that I preferred the Berkeley, even unmodified, perhaps because it also sounds more like my analog at home as well. Reflecting on myself, I do see a certain amount of bias towards the Berkeley because I've lived with it for so many years, so take all this with a grain of salt. If I were to make most-analog-like the top criterion, I would still have to go with the Berkeley.

Agree completely about the good preamp being essential.
 

spiritofmusic

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To be honest, I'm really not looking fwds to my streamer/dac investigation
First, I have a great great cdp, the vastly underrated Eera Tentation that since we're talking about piano hits any number of home runs compared to other top cdp's I've owned or auditioned
Yggy, La Voce, Halo Spring etc etc are going to be impossible to audition easily, certainly to a/b against each other
And I'm still not a natural streaming personality, like Al and Peter, happy as a frog in a box putting silver discs in a drawer
These kind of trial outcomes leave more qs than answers
 

Al M.

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So I as told Al right after the first track, initial impressions can be pretty powerful, and either totally right or completely wrong. To that extent, I flat out told him to 'pack up the Yggy and sell it'. I may still be totally wrong, but that initial impression did not change for the most part of the audition, and at one point I made the comment that I am listening to typical horns - colored and euphonic. Indeed, I felt the Yggy was trying hard to impress, though certain parts of the demo did sound really good, and in fact, at times better than the Berkeley in terms of slam and dynamics.

It was also obvious to me, yet again, that driving amps directly from the DAC ends up affecting microdyamics and resolution, as the user has to inevitably lower the digital volume on the DAC - so running the Berkeley through the Pass B1 and increasing its output level to 54.1 out of 60.0 as I play it at home increased resolution quite dramatically. I've done these direct-to-amp vs through-preamp comparisons at home numerous times, and they are unmistakable: a good preamp is absolutely necessary for best fidelity.

The Berkeley has its own problems, which is why I modified mine, and they are mostly around ultimate resolution, low-end control and macro-dynamics; all of these are addressed by my mods, and as I wrote in my own thread, I heard no difference between it and the Vivaldi 2.0 (though this may also mean my system is not the best in resolution). In the end, I agree with just about every one of Peter's observations of the two DACs, and I made just about the same comments to Al during the audition; I first saw Peter's comments later on.

If I were to describe some key aspects of the Yggy's sound, I'd say it's euphonic and forward, though greater in resolution than the Berkeley, and both with obvious shortcomings. Having said all this, the Yggy did impress me on my Pepe Romero Flamenco, just about to the same level as my modified Berkeley, though not with the same amount of slam on the foot stomping. My modified Alpha has a jump factor and presence on that CD and some others that it's wasn't there from either of Al's DACs.

The Yggy is not a bad DAC and it will surely fit well in a lot of systems, so perhaps it's all a matter of synergy. It's just that I preferred the Berkeley, even unmodified, perhaps because it also sounds more like my analog at home as well. Reflecting on myself, I do see a certain amount of bias towards the Berkeley because I've lived with it for so many years, so take all this with a grain of salt. If I were to make most-analog-like the top criterion, I would still have to go with the Berkeley.

Thanks a lot, Ack, for your detailed write-up.

Running the Berkeley DAC through the Pass B1 buffered preamp vs. direct: I don't think the differences were that pronounced. However, I do agree that it was beneficial in some ways, and while in the past I had a hard time detecting any difference, this may have changed now since my system has become considerably more transparent with DaveC's ZenWave D4 interconnects/SMSG speaker cables. That the acquisition of the Yggy forced me to buy the Pass B1 may have been a good thing; all future comparisons of the DACs will be with both running through the Pass B1.

As for the Yggy being euphonic and colored, I am still puzzled by that opinion. The DAC sounds more real to me. But then, we all hear differently. I am pleased that we all share as detailed observations and reasons for preference as we do, something that I am missing from most "this DAC is better than that DAC" threads on WBF or elsewhere.

The foot stomping on the Pepe Romero Flamenco CD has indeed more slam on your system. Yet of course, our systems also feature different woofer/subwoofer configurations. Having said that, I was quite happy how my system performed on this CD with the Yggy.
 

ack

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The foot stomping on the Pepe Romero Flamenco CD has indeed more slam on your system. Yet of course, our systems also feature different woofer/subwoofer configurations. Having said that, I was quite happy how my system performed on this CD with the Yggy.

Yes, the Yggy did really well there. Our systems being dynamically different leaves room for the Yggy to potentially be as dynamic as my modded Alpha. It'll be good for you to bring the Yggy over to Ian's for a head-to-head with the Vivaldi, so I am curious to see the result of that A/B; but buy the Flamenco first, then see if you guys get the same result as in my system, which I would basically describe as being shot at by a firing squad, i.e. frightening dynamics.
 

Joe Whip

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I don't find the Yggy to be euphoric or colored at all as I have listened to recordings I have been present at or involved in making. There are clearly DACs that do that, and impart a sameness to the sound that I really don't like. Of course, YMMV.
 

Al M.

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Yes, the Yggy did really well there. Our systems being dynamically different leaves room for the Yggy to potentially be as dynamic as my modded Alpha. It'll be good for you to bring the Yggy over to Ian's for a head-to-head with the Vivaldi, so I am curious to see the result of that A/B; but buy the Flamenco first, then see if you guys get the same result as in my system, which I would basically describe as being shot at by a firing squad, i.e. frightening dynamics.

Just ordered the Flamenco, thanks.

I am not that worried about the Yggy performing well on low end dynamics, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Vivaldi will leave it in the dust when it comes to separation of instruments in the soundstage. I may be wrong.
 

Al M.

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KeithR

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I find that sustain/decay, harmonic texture, pluck/strike, scale/power/bloom and especially continuousness on piano seems to separate the men from the boys. it exposes the inner view to the music. and it's hard to hear these specific things differently. and these things seem to relate to the humanity and naturalness of a dac.

+1. Over the past few years, piano has been a staple of my review repertoire.
 

Mdp632

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Yes, the Yggy did really well there. Our systems being dynamically different leaves room for the Yggy to potentially be as dynamic as my modded Alpha. It'll be good for you to bring the Yggy over to Ian's for a head-to-head with the Vivaldi, so I am curious to see the result of that A/B; but buy the Flamenco first, then see if you guys get the same result as in my system, which I would basically describe as being shot at by a firing squad, i.e. frightening dynamics.

It would be interesting to read your review if you are able to try the Yggy in your system. Compared to the Berkeley connected to your SV pre amp and using your Spectral SDR as a transport.

If possible of course :)
 

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