Will your platter stop if you press on the vinyl lp?

Does the vinyl lp slip?

  • Slips easily with any light pressure

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • Only slips with no down pressure, light down pressure stops platter

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • Doesn't slip at all, no matter what

    Votes: 3 50.0%
  • Vacuum'd down so it'll never slip

    Votes: 1 16.7%

  • Total voters
    6

Folsom

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If your turntable is spinning, and you press your finger down on a vinyl lp will it stop the platter from spinning, or slow it down? Or does the vinyl lp slip?
*Recommend testing on the outside lip where the needle doesn't play, or label.

What turntable, do you use a mat?
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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I have no interest in potentially ruining one of my records, so not sure why anyone would try it.

What is the point of this?
 

Folsom

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LoL, you can't ruin a record by doing that. You are only touching unused parts of the record. Obviously you don't do it with the tonearm near it.

It's interesting data to have, it is informative about potential sound differences.
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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On my SME turntable, the LP is secured with a screw-down record clamp. You can read about the platter surface on the net. I don't need to do your test. The platter will slow down when I try to slow it with my fingers, but I don't want to stretch the belt or damage the motor, so I will not test it. Once the LP is securely clamped, it does not slide against the platter surface. It would slide if not clamped, depending on the amount of force applied to the LP surface and whether or not the platter is spinning or the finger is trying to make it slip. I have seen LPs slide against smooth metal platter surfaces if sufficient force is applied to unclamped/unweighted LPs. Not much force is required for that slippage.

What are you trying to figure out? A more interesting investigation would be what happens at the LP/platter mat contact surface when the force of the stylus is applied to a spinning record. Does the LP slide with a smooth platter surface and high torque rim drive/direct drive table? What happens to vibrations and resonances within the vinyl and contact area with the platter? How does one test slippage if it is not seen? Why use record clamps/weights? Why use different platter mat materials? How does vinyl weight effect any of this if at all?
 

Folsom

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Peter my questions answers most of that. There's so many different platter materials these days.

The problem with just trying to know if the stylus affects it or not is that, well, you can't see it. But if we know that say there is a consistency with a difference in sound with ones that slip easier, we have something of interest. Hence just testing with fingers. (it's just the reverse of what happens when you turn a turntable on, odds of damage aren't a concern, and belts should slip not stretch unless set too tight)

Weights will affect the outcome, for sure. The consensus on here is that the manufacturer of a turntable has worked with concerns of conditions that would make a mat useful. In other words mats are not appreciated since the assumption is the manufacturer dealt with the issue, especially when it's an expensive TT. In some cases that may be true, but for a lot of TT's it simply goes against physics. The sound from the stylus going into the record, down, then back up, is something best eliminated. The metal platters for that reason make little to no sense, except in subjective points.
 

Loheswaran

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Dec 19, 2014
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If your turntable is spinning, and you press your finger down on a vinyl lp will it stop the platter from spinning, or slow it down? Or does the vinyl lp slip?
*Recommend testing on the outside lip where the needle doesn't play, or label.

What turntable, do you use a mat?

1. How hard are you pressing it with your hand?
2. Are you using a mat/ slipmat?
3. Is there a record weight?
4. record screw down clamp?
5. belt, Idler, direct drive?
6. Idler AC/DC motor
7. torque of motor
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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Peter my questions answers most of that. There's so many different platter materials these days.

The problem with just trying to know if the stylus affects it or not is that, well, you can't see it. But if we know that say there is a consistency with a difference in sound with ones that slip easier, we have something of interest. Hence just testing with fingers. (it's just the reverse of what happens when you turn a turntable on, odds of damage aren't a concern, and belts should slip not stretch unless set too tight)

Weights will affect the outcome, for sure. The consensus on here is that the manufacturer of a turntable has worked with concerns of conditions that would make a mat useful. In other words mats are not appreciated since the assumption is the manufacturer dealt with the issue, especially when it's an expensive TT. In some cases that may be true, but for a lot of TT's it simply goes against physics. The sound from the stylus going into the record, down, then back up, is something best eliminated. The metal platters for that reason make little to no sense, except in subjective points.

I don't understand your comments about belt tension. The SME belt does not slip. Given your argument that the manufacturer has dealt with platter mats, I presume the same holds with belt tension. SME is a well designed, engineered turntable. If the stylus drag slows down a platter and the belt slips, I'd argue that it is not tight enough. If one designs the system for no stretch, then one should use a non stretchy material like tape or thread. I'd rather not second guess SME.

Regarding metal platters, many users on other forums talk about different sounds of different metals and not using mats. They seem to actually prefer certain metals to other alternatives. Perhaps this is what you refer to as subjective points. If it sounds better to the user, then for some people, it is better for the user.
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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LoL, you can't ruin a record by doing that. You are only touching unused parts of the record. Obviously you don't do it with the tonearm near it.

It's interesting data to have, it is informative about potential sound differences.

Really. you do realise the record at the edge is connected to the rest of it - LOL.

what if you are using a copper platter, SAEC SS-300 Alloy Turntable Mat or any hard type platter of mat? puting finger pressure will sure potentially scratch the record when the record is stationary and the hard platter is still moving. Try it and let us know how it goes.

If you are trying to replicate finger pressure to stylus pressure, that is laughable.

btw - I have never noticed any difference in speed with turntable spinning and stylus playing.
 

awsmone

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Apr 6, 2014
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I really don't understand the point of the observation? By his poorly suggested experiment

Even if we take worse case scenario high torque direct drive, no clamp, and slippery platter surface

Although using your hand which is slightly heavier than the Vtf of a cartridge may overcome the coefficient of friction, and the lp slip, this does not correlate with the stylus

The analog would be the adhesion of your tyres to the road, strangely my SUV goes round corners quite nicely and fast

But if a tank comes up and pushes it even at full power the tank easily wins ...are the tyres a limitation in normal working conditions ...no!

I know a cartridge when oscillating can pull many g sideways but not forward and back

Plus the force of the stylus in lbs per square. inch is pretty large also
 

Folsom

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No one said you have to use a cherished LP, and are not weak enough to possibly cause a problem particularly while they're supported. Your skin cant reach thr grooves, and you dont need to touch it where the grooves are at.

While you could come up with equipment and other things, do-dads, etc, to test, a finger is going to be sufficient. Is it more than a stylus? Sure if you press enough, but a stylus never moves the LP enough to see, where as using something (a finger) lets you know if its possible for it to slip in relation to the platter at all. Conditions vary from LP to LP, so a general approximation is going to be what you get.

I know some people use double sided tape to keep their mat in place, providing enough resistance that the LP won't move.
 

awsmone

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If the coefficient of friction between the mat and platter was that low, then it would be an inappropriate combination
Adding sticky tape just adds confounder of an uneven playing surface

Adding greater force than the stylus doesn't prove it happens when playing a record under vtf
 

Folsom

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It gives you a good idea.

Having the ever so slightest difference under felt mats as such doesnt mean anything. Records with all kinds of weirdness to them play fine, and most are flexible. If the arguement were true, then turntables with clamping force would be a huge problem, as they usually push the records shape slightly differently.
 

awsmone

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2014
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Lol

Your views are pretty amazing

Turntable's are supposed to be precision mechanisms, and your trying to identify a mechanical weakness, by your test

But at the same time your prepared to accept adding a mechanical anomaly to solve another neither of which you have quantified

Warping of records has clear effects, the fact they can be played is irrelevant
 

awsmone

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If you wanted to stop the Mat slipping use a spray on adhesive like used in photography which is acid free and water soluble not double sided tape lol
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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This whole thread is LOL

i am outta here.
 

Hi-FiGuy

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Feb 23, 2015
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Give me a freekin break, if you blow on the record the opposite direction of rotation on my TT it dang near stops, no slowing down involved! :):D;):p:eek:
If the cat farts at the other end of the house during a sustained note I hear the pitch bend!
 
Last edited:

Folsom

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Oct 25, 2015
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Give me a freekin break, if you blow on the record the opposite direction of rotation on my TT it dang near stops, no slowing down involved! :):D;):p:eek:
If the cat farts at the other end of the house during a sustained note I hear the pitch bend!

That was a similar experience I had with a turntable just like yours, minus the cat. But the felt mat it came with was very slick on the platter. I used a Herbies which helped for awhile. Ultimatley I have prefered non-belt drive that I moved to.
 

Loheswaran

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2014
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Give me a freekin break, if you blow on the record the opposite direction of rotation on my TT it dang near stops, no slowing down involved! :):D;):p:eek:
If the cat farts at the other end of the house during a sustained note I hear the pitch bend!

A tidal wave of Neutron energy can't stop my belt/DD/Idler/water powered hybrid - My deck is like the 'irresistible force'
 

Hi-FiGuy

Member Sponsor
Feb 23, 2015
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That was a similar experience I had with a turntable just like yours, minus the cat. But the felt mat it came with was very slick on the platter. I used a Herbies which helped for awhile. Ultimatley I have prefered non-belt drive that I moved to.

The felt mat hit the bricks long ago and was replaced with said Herbies.
 

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