Advice on new table

Tonza

New Member
Jul 5, 2017
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Hey. Just joined the forum after reviewing threads for sometime.

I know this is a subjective question but would appreciate y'alls thoughts on a purchase I'm planning.

I currently have an SME 20/2, which I purchased used about 14 years ago. It's been a great table, but I'm upgrading my whole system and am planning to purchase a much more substantial table.

I was planning to buy a SME 30/12 because I have been so content with my current table, but for some reason I'm also very drawn to the VPI classic direct, which is a bit less expensive as well.

Any opinions as to which of these I should buy? I listen primarily to rock, blues, some jazz.

Associated equipment is audio research ref 6 preamp, audio research ref 3 phono, Mark levinson 536 amps, magico s5 mkii speakers

Thanks!

Anthony
 

Loheswaran

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2014
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Can I just say that Weisfield commented that the facilities don't exist to make Sp10 motors anymore - why I don't know - but he was talking about the VPI Classic. If you are spending the kind of money that will get you an SME 30/2 there's an awful lot of exotica that is likely to be able to float your boat so to speak - why the VPI Classic?

For the price of the SME 30/2 you can get the first rung of the AirForce range and your SME v arm will go well with it
 

Tonza

New Member
Jul 5, 2017
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Yes. Subsequent to my initial post, I now think I need to expand range. Now looking at AF2 or Kronos but need to go hear AF2 in person. AF2 would fit in my space a bit better and seems very cool with the suction and air bearing.
 

Loheswaran

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2014
432
99
258
Interesting - the US is a very good market for SME. The 30 - especially the 12 inch version gets a lot of plaudits - the 9 inch arm that you have will still work on it.

I heard the Kronos - not really bowled over by it.

What is it that you want in your new deck. Basis, for instance, are great value in the USA just like VPI. Brinkmann are a great deck too... I envy your choice and budget.

What are your dealers like? Whenever I have spoken to US shops they are very enthusiastic and helpful. see if you can take some of ur own components to the dealer, better still ask for a home audition - at your kinda money the dealers ought to oblige imho
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
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The Kronos, TechDAS and SME are all good options. I have heard them all, AF1 though not the AF2 model, in different systems. You should definitely try to hear one or more in your own system, but that may be very difficult. The TechDAS AF2 I think can take two arms if that is important. Interestingly, these are all belt drive tables while the VPI is DD. You should read the HighFi News reviews of the SME and TechDAS. Specs are very close in terms of noise, wow, rumble, speed etc. It may come down to dealer proximity and service. The Kronos has the new power supply option for extra money. I suspect they do sound different, though I have never heard them in direct comparisons.

You have some nice options. Enjoy the research and let us know what you learn.
 

awsmone

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2014
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Canberra Australia
Anthony

All the suggestions above are good

The other two I would suggest

Kuzma M which is engineered to the same standard as sme with the incredible 4point arm, there is a great photo essay in this forum

And Monaco direct drive which Roy Gregory just reviewed the new version

Good luck
 

cuntigh

Well-Known Member
Dec 20, 2014
339
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FRANCE
If I where to begin (or even ending) with a TT the only one I would choose would be the Thorens TD124 made by Swissonor with their own tonearm and voltage regulator.
These guys really know what they do.
They have been physically in touch with some of the engineers who worked on the creaton of this machine and have an indisputable knowledge of how to make this table sound like Music. They have tested nearly all the materials possible for the plinth, armboard, platter etc. and some can kill the sound easily. They made a new bearing also. Imagine if you worked about 15 years on a model with skill and passion : the result you could obtain...
I wish I could have heard it sooner in my life and so have spared a lot of money and have the best sound from a TT I ever heard. Did I say «*sound*» ? Music would be a better world.
I have no interest at all with Swissonor but let me tell you that when Schopper works a full day on restoring a 124, Swissonor’s tech works a full 4 days on it. This man wrote a thesis on how to restore a 124. He also is a confirmed musician playing clavichord. This syas much about his mechanics skill and ears for making TT sound good.
 

gian60

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
2,503
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I have a TD 124 Swissonor with non magnetic platter with koetsu arm for now
is really beautiful

IMG_0989.JPG
IMG_0988.JPG
IMG_0991.JPG
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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London
If I where to begin (or even ending) with a TT the only one I would choose would be the Thorens TD124 made by Swissonor with their own tonearm and voltage regulator.
These guys really know what they do.
They have been physically in touch with some of the engineers who worked on the creaton of this machine and have an indisputable knowledge of how to make this table sound like Music. They have tested nearly all the materials possible for the plinth, armboard, platter etc. and some can kill the sound easily. They made a new bearing also. Imagine if you worked about 15 years on a model with skill and passion : the result you could obtain...
I wish I could have heard it sooner in my life and so have spared a lot of money and have the best sound from a TT I ever heard. Did I say «*sound*» ? Music would be a better world.
I have no interest at all with Swissonor but let me tell you that when Schopper works a full day on restoring a 124, Swissonor’s tech works a full 4 days on it. This man wrote a thesis on how to restore a 124. He also is a confirmed musician playing clavichord. This syas much about his mechanics skill and ears for making TT sound good.

+1 on these 124s. I am going to get one and then will also try to find a good DD over the longer term. Either restored Technics, used Kodo, I am not sure. It's impossible to compare Schopper and Swissonor though, as Schopper uses Swissonor parts, and they also spend 3 months making the motor or wheel or something. Getting details from all of them is difficult. Schopper is third generation and bought out all Thorens spare parts and engineer, so both have advantages and disadvantages. Schopper runs a bigger operation recording tapes and restoring R2Rs and many other vintage TTs. I have also been to Hanze Hifi in Amsterdam who uses Swissonor parts and Schopper parts to create their TTs, and the engineer there prefers it to all his other restored vintages, including the EMTs. And yes, there I found a difference in plinths. The wooden plinth did not sound as good as the Schopper/Swissonor like plinth (not sure what material). Will be posting a big write up soon. And a direct comparison of the 10 inch Swissonor arm to SME 3009 on SPU a90 proved the Swissonor arm much superior on all fronts, though more expensive at 3600 Euro.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
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Ked, what am I not doing right?
Go on the PTP website, and there is immediate info on Solid 9 and 12 tts, options, easy ordering
I go in the Schopper or Swissonor sites and I’m presented with a jumble of a website, no options at all for complete refurbed tts, and no direct ordering of one.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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Ked, what am I not doing right?
Go on the PTP website, and there is immediate info on Solid 9 and 12 tts, options, easy ordering
I go in the Schopper or Swissonor sites and I’m presented with a jumble of a website, no options at all for complete refurbed tts, and no direct ordering of one.

Errr...your first question is easy to answer, as I have not spent time going around their websites, but to Amsterdam, Zurich, Geneva, Edinburgh, and Hampshire?

I think best place to listen to is in Amsterdam at Hanze Hifi (where you can compare 124 and Garrard) and at PTP. You might find all three equally good, btw...and you can add the Primary control to that trip. All in two days, flights are cheap
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
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E. England
I finally may take yr advice to travel
 

jfrech

VIP/Donor
Sep 3, 2012
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Austin
US - texas

Tonza, I think you need to hear the Grand Prix Audio Parabolica and/or Monaco. I went from a SME 20/2 & SME IV.Vi arm to the Grand Prix Audio Monaco 1.0 a few years back. I'll likely upgrade my table to the 2.0 status. Dealer has them both on display in Austin, Tx. It's worth the time to check these two out...

If you're in Austin, let me know.

Some info:

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/blog/grand_prix_audio_monaco_15.htm
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/blog/grand_prix_monaco_20.htm

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/news/gpa_parabolica.htm
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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Tonza, I think you need to hear the Grand Prix Audio Parabolica and/or Monaco. I went from a SME 20/2 & SME IV.Vi arm to the Grand Prix Audio Monaco 1.0 a few years back. I'll likely upgrade my table to the 2.0 status. Dealer has them both on display in Austin, Tx. It's worth the time to check these two out...

If you're in Austin, let me know.

Some info:

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/blog/grand_prix_audio_monaco_15.htm
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/blog/grand_prix_monaco_20.htm

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/news/gpa_parabolica.htm

John, I know you haven't compared in the same system, but what's your opinion on the delta difference between the SP10 mk3, kodo and Monaco 1.5?

Does the 1.5 have the Midbass and authority of the other two?
 

jfrech

VIP/Donor
Sep 3, 2012
2,152
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Austin
John, I know you haven't compared in the same system, but what's your opinion on the delta difference between the SP10 mk3, kodo and Monaco 1.5?

Does the 1.5 have the Midbass and authority of the other two?

It's hard to say. I've heard all 3. But in different systems with different arms/Cartridges etc. All 3 of these tables are good.

I will say the Monaco 2.0 is the best bass I've heard from any table at any price in any system. Heck it maybe just the best table...it's pretty killer
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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It's hard to say. I've heard all 3. But in different systems with different arms/Cartridges etc. All 3 of these tables are good.

I will say the Monaco 2.0 is the best bass I've heard from any table at any price in any system. Heck it maybe just the best table...it's pretty killer

2 is too expensive. The others at used price will be more in reach, hence asking about 1.5. Regarding bass, also the midbass and lower mids? Baritone chest, fullness of piano, deep sax and brass?
 

jfrech

VIP/Donor
Sep 3, 2012
2,152
749
1,160
Austin
2 is too expensive. The others at used price will be more in reach, hence asking about 1.5. Regarding bass, also the midbass and lower mids? Baritone chest, fullness of piano, deep sax and brass?

I wish you could hear mine. While it's a Monaco 1.0, yes yes and yes regarding the bass/midbass and mids. I'm sure the pairing of Arm/Cart and cabling don't hurt in this regard...in my case
 

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