Which DAC to consider pairing with Esoteric p0?

Ken Newton

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Dec 11, 2012
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Maybe it is possible to build a giant killer DAC for under 10K that takes on anything out there? Ken, do you have any pics of your DACs? Or do you post pics in a DIY forum?

My experimental DACs are very boring to look at. They are simply a PCB mounted on top of a plywood or an acrylic base with no enclosure. This makes it easy to hack around on the PCB to try different circuit ideas and also to conduct measurements.

As it turns out, my experiments have led me to suspect that it's possible to create a giant killer DAC for much less than $10K. I'm exploring a quite promising path that I'm not prepared to discuss at this time. Many of us technical minded audiophiles secretly harbor the dream of someday launching a commercial audio product venture and I suppose that I'm no different ;).

I will say that following the commonly traveled well established design paths will not lead to a giant killing breakthrough. How can it? Established paths lead only to familiar destinations. A breakthough will require exploring a new, or at least, a little traveled or obscure path. I need to create a new DAC in order to fully test my thinking, which may only reveal that the path leads nowhere. I apologize for needing to be cryptic.
 
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Al M.

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Sep 10, 2013
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OCTOBER 2, 2010:
Here are my extended observations of NOS via an AD1865 based DAC of my own design which allowed me to switch a typical half-band brickwall FIR digital reconstruction filter in and out of circuit on-the-fly by simply flipping a toggle switch.

[...]

What NOS maybe doesn't get right:

2) NOS subjectively seems to shift musical energy from the upper bass/lower midrange region to the upper midrange region, which then alters the perceieved tonality of most instruments and vocalists. This highlighting of the the upper midrange is initially pleasing by seemingly presenting more musical detail, but ultimately, it becomes increasingly noticeable until is reaches distraction.

This effect also seems to soften or loosen the impact of bass register instruments, almost as if they were no longer properly damped. While I perceive a lack of tightness or an excessive looseness which is particularly apparent with kettle drum, rock drum kits and electric bass, I do not perceive a net lack of bass energy. The energy seems fully present, it just seems to lack focus or punch.

Ken, I appreciate your carefully detailed post. Something like that should happen more often at WBF.

As to the above: I heard the new small BorderPatrol NOS DAC and it had an incredibly gutsy tonal balance, with lots of power in the lower midrange and bass. A jazz drum kit sounded enormously punchy, as I have rarely heard in a system.

I don't know how much of that was system dependent. I heard it with a BorderPatrol push-pull triode DAC and Volti horn speakers (which don't exhibit the typical horn colorations at all).

The DAC chip is an AD1543, if I remember correctly.
 

opus112

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Feb 24, 2016
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The DAC chip is an AD1543, if I remember correctly.

TDA1543 - its an old bipolar Philips design originally targeting economy applications. I built a few DACs using this chip but eventually worked out it has some colouration which is what's making it attractive. Measurements-wise its a bit of a dog though with very poor low-level linearity and severe mis-match between channels due to (I presume) no expensive trimming of bit weights. Lots of designs use an array of these chips (4, 8 or 16) in an attempt to overcome the poor linearity as the bit weights average out. Lite DAC-AH is a classic example of such an architecture and is very affordable and easy to mod.
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
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Greater Boston
TDA1543 - its an old bipolar Philips design originally targeting economy applications. I built a few DACs using this chip but eventually worked out it has some colouration which is what's making it attractive. Measurements-wise its a bit of a dog though with very poor low-level linearity and severe mis-match between channels due to (I presume) no expensive trimming of bit weights. Lots of designs use an array of these chips (4, 8 or 16) in an attempt to overcome the poor linearity as the bit weights average out. Lite DAC-AH is a classic example of such an architecture and is very affordable and easy to mod.

Very interesting, thanks. The BorderPatrol DAC uses a single chip if I am not mistaken, see picture:

https://www.audiostream.com/content/borderpatrol-usb-dac

(the new version has a metal case)
 

opus112

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2016
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That old version has much more of a DIY feel about it, with the wooden case. It looks like the valve was added later - I can see what looks like a CLC power supply filter which is a good sign.

A weakness I notice here is the use of a toroidal with its wide bandwidth to mains noise. Better to employ some common-mode chokes to mitigate this effect methinks. Or alternatively use a split bobbin type of transformer - for example as is being used on this 16*TDA1543 design :http://162.250.126.230/item-img/New-Release-Finished-L1543DAC-16X-Sixteen-Parallel-TDA1543-HiFi-Audio-DAC-Decoder-Digital-Analog-Input-Black/32817439606.html#
 

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