Jeff's Getting a New Stereo System

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
8,689
4,477
963
Greater Boston
I think when you are 'gear' focused and not 'sonic reference' focused you can get caught up in comparative type efforts (upgrade-itis) of gear instead of working toward a sonic ideal. once you have that 'sonic reference' in mind then either you get the pieces you have to work, or switch pieces.

Yes, sonic references are important, and a realization of the type of presentation you personally want -- and perhaps these two can go hand in hand. A lot of audiophiles seem 'lost at sea', not knowing what they really want, only that they want all the things they recently heard in other systems and which they don't currently have. Result: aimless upgrade-itis, especially when they are 'gear' focused as you say.

Not that I don't have upgrade-itis myself, but it's goal-oriented.
 

RogerD

VIP/Donor
May 23, 2010
3,734
318
565
BiggestLittleCity
To me it would be entirely refreshing to see a reviewer quit the wash,rinse,repeat,cycle and admit that the changing of gear constantly could reflect a lack of system building acuity.
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
9,391
4,988
978
Switzerland
Dynaudio and McIntosh, I have difficulty thinking of a less inspiring "high end" combination. Neither have been on my radar for reference sound in the last 20 years...even before I went away completely from SS gear.
 

thedudeabides

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2011
2,127
651
1,200
Alto, NM
I've seen other members on this forum do the same thing (intentionally create suspense) and I don't understand the reason why.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,448
13,476
2,710
London
To me it would be entirely refreshing to see a reviewer quit the wash,rinse,repeat,cycle and admit that the changing of gear constantly could reflect a lack of system building acuity.

Different things. System building for himself is not really relevant to others unless he is a consultant flying around setting up others' systems. if someone wants to know if they need choose between AR and VTL, next best thing to listening and finding out yourself, is to find out a trusted person's opinion on the differences in the characteristics.
 

KeithR

VIP/Donor
May 7, 2010
5,144
2,812
1,898
Encino, CA
Dynaudio and McIntosh, I have difficulty thinking of a less inspiring "high end" combination. Neither have been on my radar for reference sound in the last 20 years...even before I went away completely from SS gear.

to be fair, nor has KR Audio for most :)
 

RogerD

VIP/Donor
May 23, 2010
3,734
318
565
BiggestLittleCity
Dynaudio and McIntosh, I have difficulty thinking of a less inspiring "high end" combination. Neither have been on my radar for reference sound in the last 20 years...even before I went away completely from SS gear.
I think the last time I heard from Bob Katz and his new Dynaudio studio monitors he thought they were one of the best...he purchased a pair recently. I do you use a custom dynaudio pair,not full range though.
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
4,938
6,268
950
Bangkok
I can get the same enjoyment driving my exotic sport car and a Mini Coupe. But it surely different experiences.
To me this thread is about one person changing his objective. Not about one can get the same sq and experience with cheaper gears. He sure can get the same enjoyment though. :eek:
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
Dynaudio and McIntosh, I have difficulty thinking of a less inspiring "high end" combination. Neither have been on my radar for reference sound in the last 20 years...even before I went away completely from SS gear.

I owned the Dynaudio Consequence's twenty years ago, and could easily go on living with them today if I had a very large room and an adequate system. The little time I owned McIntosh (tubes, surely! :)) was with Quad ESL63 and Wilson Audio and they sounded very good. But yes, I putting the two brands together does not seem an inspiring combination!
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
If it is about saving money, i would be interested to watch Jeff pick up yesteryear's SOTA equipment 2nd hand/demo and put together a world-class system again that satisfies his die-hard high end audiophile cravings...AND saves himself a boat-load of money.

In truth, that i suspect is where a lot of audiophiles are...no matter what our budget, we are constantly striving to stretch it that much further. And in a number of cases, buying 2nd hand/demo is a big place to safe without sacrificing quality.

i understand that such an article may not satisfy [potentially not unimportant commercial elements] of the industry/website, etc...but I CAN imagine a lot of audiophiles would watch/read with great interest as Jeff proceeds to run through some of the greatest equipment of all time to see if some of them can still hold their own. Just looking at some of the systems here, I bet some of that equipment can.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
This is so true. We do tend to stay with what we are comfortable with. "...stuck in their own path" is a good way to put it. I'm guilty of this and likely will be in the future. Though another SoundStage! writer just went from cones to MartinLogans. Think I'm going to have to give that a try in my room.

Here is the next part of the series:

http://www.soundstageultra.com/inde...46-jeffs-getting-a-new-stereo-system-part-two

Your Journey aside Jeff, what will happen to Soundstage Ultra now that you are exploring what would be candidates for maybe Soundstage HiFi and maybe even Soundstage's Simplifi?

As for your motivation, I wish you all the best. Nothing trumps family. Your wife and kids are lucky to have you.
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
9,391
4,988
978
Switzerland
I owned the Dynaudio Consequence's twenty years ago, and could easily go on living with them today if I had a very large room and an adequate system. The little time I owned McIntosh (tubes, surely! :)) was with Quad ESL63 and Wilson Audio and they sounded very good. But yes, I putting the two brands together does not seem an inspiring combination!

A friend of mine had the MC501 monos and the best thing he ever did for his system was to get rid of them. A dead hand was lifted from the system...

I had Dynaudio speakers in the past and as long as I stuck to compressed pop/rock they were admirably neutral and did not reveal their severe limitations with wide dynamic range music.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
A friend of mine had the MC501 monos and the best thing he ever did for his system was to get rid of them. A dead hand was lifted from the system...

The MC501 are 500W transformer coupled transistor amplifiers - I was referring to tubed McInstosh. The MC2102 and the old MC275s sounded very good in my system.

I had Dynaudio speakers in the past and as long as I stuck to compressed pop/rock they were admirably neutral and did not reveal their severe limitations with wide dynamic range music.

It seems we owned different models. I owned the Consequence's and the Contour 4's - these used the famous 28 mm Esotar T330 tweeter, also used in the Sonus Faber Extrema and Amator. These Dynaudio's needed very powerful amplifiers, as they were inefficient - surely not small power tubes. The best experience I had with them was with the Cello electronics. They sounded great with large dynamic orchestral and symphonic music, as well as chamber music.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,448
13,476
2,710
London
I was very disappointed listening to the Dynaudio temptation with gryphon antileon, kuzma xl4, gold finger, octave phono, in a nice room and private set up
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
9,391
4,988
978
Switzerland
The MC501 are 500W transformer coupled transistor amplifiers - I was referring to tubed McInstosh. The MC2102 and the old MC275s sounded very good in my system.



It seems we owned different models. I owned the Consequence's and the Contour 4's - these used the famous 28 mm Esotar T330 tweeter, also used in the Sonus Faber Extrema and Amator. These Dynaudio's needed very powerful amplifiers, as they were inefficient - surely not small power tubes. The best experience I had with them was with the Cello electronics. They sounded great with large dynamic orchestral and symphonic music, as well as chamber music.

Well, Jeff Fritz will almost certainly not get a tube amp and the one mentioned in his article is most definitely a SS one; therefore, your comments about how good Mc tube amps sound is not all that relevant. FWIW, I don't think their tube amps sound particularly good either.

Yes, the fact that they need powerful amps is not lost on me. I had a SimAudio Moon W5 back when I had Dynaudio speakers (400 watts into the 4ohm load). Didn't matter, the need for high power is clearly a cry for help from a speaker that can't get out of first gear. I doubt now your view on what "sounded great with large dynamic orchestral and symphonic music" means. I have heard them many times at shows with a variety of big SS amps and the result were largely similar to what I experienced in my own home. No dynamics and dead at low volumes.
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
9,391
4,988
978
Switzerland
I was very disappointed listening to the Dynaudio temptation with gryphon antileon, kuzma xl4, gold finger, octave phono, in a nice room and private set up

Not at all surprised by this. Please expand on what you heard that made it such a fail.
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,794
73
1,635
Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
I think when you are 'gear' focused and not 'sonic reference' focused you can get caught up in comparative type efforts (upgrade-itis) of gear instead of working toward a sonic ideal. once you have that 'sonic reference' in mind then either you get the pieces you have to work, or switch pieces.

how we come upon that 'sonic reference' can vary......and our 'sonic reference' will evolve over time too.

Given what you noted (highlighted in red), which, by the way, I agree with, then maybe "upgrade-itis" becomes "sonic preference-itis". So while the goals may be different, both will drive equipment changes. So why is one really better than the other. Different certainly. Better???
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,608
5,415
1,278
E. England
I'd be REALLY impressed w Jeff if he did a real 180 and decided on something like the new $4k Elac Adante
I would also say invest in Zus, but I'd hate to be accused of bias
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
Well, Jeff Fritz will almost certainly not get a tube amp and the one mentioned in his article is most definitely a SS one; therefore, your comments about how good Mc tube amps sound is not all that relevant. FWIW, I don't think their tube amps sound particularly good either.

As a general comment I think they are relevant - and I we will friendly disagree on the sound quality of their tube amplifiers.

Yes, the fact that they need powerful amps is not lost on me. I had a SimAudio Moon W5 back when I had Dynaudio speakers (400 watts into the 4ohm load). Didn't matter, the need for high power is clearly a cry for help from a speaker that can't get out of first gear. I doubt now your view on what "sounded great with large dynamic orchestral and symphonic music" means. I have heard them many times at shows with a variety of big SS amps and the result were largely similar to what I experienced in my own home. No dynamics and dead at low volumes.

Again you refer to shows and anonymous models that I can not compare with those I named, I refer to my limited experience in my room and a good friend installations, who cared to expertly fine tune the system. At that time this friend was the Dynaudio distributor - much later I even bought from him my current Forsell turntable, based on great listening session we had in his very large room. I can add that in his system he also used the Consequence's with the more powerful VAC mono blocks.

Many solid state power amplifiers have high power but are not agile. Sometimes they need a good preamplifier to inject life in all this power, or are simply unable to have subjective dynamics. Another local friend had a curious mixed combination Dynaudio Contour4's - Electrocompaniet AW250 - ARC tube preamplfier. Very enjoyable, IMHO.

We are exposing preferences - I will always try to refer mostly to the positive experiences I had, giving some detail that I think can interest WBF readers. And yes, although only a few times, I had some exceptional listening sessions in shows.
 

KeithR

VIP/Donor
May 7, 2010
5,144
2,812
1,898
Encino, CA
A friend of mine had the MC501 monos and the best thing he ever did for his system was to get rid of them. A dead hand was lifted from the system...

I had Dynaudio speakers in the past and as long as I stuck to compressed pop/rock they were admirably neutral and did not reveal their severe limitations with wide dynamic range music.

I have a SET friend who loves the 501s for SS. must depend on the speaker.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing